to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

What are the positive effects of illegal drugs?

The positive effects are that people can have a good time.

They tend to be quite moreish though.

Scaredbutdoingit Wed 03-Oct-12 16:55:13
cory

"It really is like cars... the harmful/harmless force comes from the user and not the object.

A car can absolutely kill you, and will if you do not handle it properly (not just you but others also).

Likewise, a drug really can ruin a person's life, leave it in absolute tatters. If it is not used with sufficient wisdom and moderation. "

I don't think it's just about wisdom and moderation; there is an increasing body of evidence suggesting that some people may be genetically predisposed to develop MH disorders if using cannabis whilst others won't. But there is no testing procedure to tell you whether you are or not.

Just like some people can drink heavily for years without becoming addicted or suffering any ill consequences (my ILs being a case in point), others can't. Some can smoke non-stop for decades without getting lung cancer: it's not about wisdom and moderation, more about genetics and sheer good luck.

I think the seeing the effects issue is interesting. I also see the effects, as in almost every one i know does/has done drugs and everyone is fine and no one has become addicted or ruined their lives. We are both seeing the genuine effects tho - they are just different ends of the same spectrum.

I go to a party where everyone is drinking, and i also see the effects, usually everyone really happy and dancing and laughing. That isn't to say i haven't seen people violent, melancholy and aggressive. I think it depends on the personality of the user beforehand. If you are emotionally/mentally secure then drugs don't take hold.

Half of all people who smoke will die from their addiction.

My sister took illegal drugs for many years but it was alcohol addiction which made her life impossible.

I really cannot see how illegal drugs are worse, except insofar as they're illegal, and thus addiction brings with it a whole additional layer of problems. But of course we choose to make these drugs illegal.

I assume that anyone who uses illegal drugs either doesn't know about or is determined to close their mind to the utter personal misery, violence, corruption and political instability associated with the production and trafficking of drugs. Even if you buy pills or weed you have no guarantee that your money is not ultimately funding some extremely unpleasant and dangerous people.

While decriminalisation might reduce some of the problems in this country like gang violence, gun crime etc., I can't see that it would do anything to stop the misery in places of production and along the supply route.

Does having a good time justify trafficking and prostitution?

Does having a good time justify the huge levels of theft and the black market economy?

I have never doubted that some people can use drugs with no adverse affect on their behaviour (although it does affect their health), but there is an adverse effect on wider society because of the crime associated with the illegal drugs economy.

Positive effects include very real pain relief for a start (do not underestimate this one!)

And for those who are mature, equipped, and informed enough (just as you should be to have sex, drive a car, and drink alcohol), they can teach you an incredible amount about consciousness and the mind, which is the bit people really don't like to talk about.

My brother took heroin for years our life was hell at times with it. Then I got ill and was on dialysis and he said he was going to give up and donate a kidney to me. Everyone rolled their eyes but he did. He is still clean 12 years on. I hope my ds never ends up where my brother was but I would never preach the drugs are evil line as every person is different

Onemorechap I like you! No, I know it's not proof, just anecdotal. However there have been studies on regular cannabis use and mental health so it is corraborated by evidence.

Anyway, I haven't said where I stand on the drugs issue. I've just said that many people who say they have tried drugs are probably lying to make themselves seem more interesting and offered this as an explanation as to the laissez faire attitude on Mumsnet.

Some posters claim to have tried it and have friends who all take it etc to try and decorate their mundane lives a little bit. Note I said some before loads of posters leap to their own defences.

cory

"it's not about wisdom and moderation, more about genetics and sheer good luck."

I would say it is absolutely and positively about both. Much like everything in life.

You did ask for the positive aspects of illegal drugs.

Most people who have been to university have tried some kind of illegal drugs, I would say.

Gawd. Just legalise the lighter stuff and let everyone get on with it.

cannabis caused my brother a lot more trouble than heroin which sounds unbelievable but is true. Modern skunk type grass is dangerous

Dahlen

"an adverse effect on wider society because of the crime associated with the illegal drugs economy"

Absolutely agreed. But many people will place the responsibility for this on the powers that keep it illegal.

I think a life with drugs is a lot more mundane rhubarb Older people still doing it are quite dull when you don't do it yourself.

We're a net exporter of cannabis, so the carbon footprint is pretty low.

MarysBeard - oddly enough i found university very puritanical about drugs. That was my first time living outside London and i was in halls with a lot of students from rural areas. They were all extremely anti drugs. I remember mentioning smoking a joint and they were all shocked and some started chanting 'leah betts' at me. Some never spoke to me again. They had been constantly told by their parents they would die the moment they tried drugs. They all drank like fish tho and I was worried some would choke on their own vomit - that was good clean fun tho!

I never knew anyone at uni who did drugs, i found it all very weird.

I did most of my drugs before i got to uni 15-19 - by then i was bored of them.

OP - I think the issue is that what you are really saying is

AIBU to be shocked that not everyone holds the same view as me?

To which, of course, the answer is yes.

If you said AIBU to think drugs can be harmful or AIBU to think drugs can be destructive then no one would be disagreeing with you I don't think.

But to be shocked that people hold different views on the subject is U.

noddyholder Wed 03-Oct-12 17:19:05
"I think a life with drugs is a lot more mundane rhubarb Older people still doing it are quite dull when you don't do it yourself."

My own memories of sharing a house with people who did smoke weed regularly was that their heightened consciousness and deeper insights were not apparent to anybody except themselves: to me they just seemed to be saying the same platitudes over and over again and giggling a lot. But they were convinced they were being very profound. Which must have been very pleasant

cory - The feelings of profundity and insight that people profess whilst using various drugs, are not the same as the real insights you get when you analyse the experience afterwards.

But many people are just 'in it' for the fun.

I'm the opposite to the OP in that I've always been surprised at the outrage I've encountered towards drugs on mn.

I've been a 'drug user' for about 25 years, although now its more occasional joint than what it used to be.

I'm very much like spuddy but with poor people. I grew up in London, in grotty estates and there were heroin addicts but the majority of adults I knew were 'recreational' drug users as well as nearly all of them smoking and drinking heavily. I've never really moved away from that group or area and know many of the same people and through work others I've encountered were posh and were on coke like it was oxygen so I've never really experienced anti-drug life.

About attitudes to coke, late eighties to mid nineties was my heyday and I do remember coke as being a sort of yuppy drug but we could, as poor teens get hold of it quite easily although ours was probably cut with so much shite. Later into the nineties it got I think probably everyone I knew was doing it at the weekends at least. Back then I and all my friends took anything we could get our hands on and had a great time. I know people who had adverse experiences and one or 2 people that died but I think that the earlier point of it depends how you've seen it is the most relevant. The negatives I saw were in the minority (not saying this is factual evidence) plus I was enjoying myself as were my friends, boyfriend etc so there was never really a reason to stop.

Work, dealing with comedowns as well as 3 sick children, loss of the youthful invincible feeling, mortgage payments etc changed things but I still indulge occasionally as do majority of family/social circle.

The whole its illegal end of argument also doesn't bother me. I'm, like many of the attitude that I only care if its illegal if I get caught.

Just to clarify.

'Fun' is a very common motive, and whilst I do not decry it as a terrible motive, it is certainly not the best one! And not one I particularly endorse.