to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

I'm a teacher.

Occasional recreational drug use at weekends or in the holidays is far from unusual IME.

It's not like we can go to the bloody pub...all those judgmental parents tutting...

Am carefully reading through the thread, as I tend to agree with Vicar's comments and have a similar view point. However, there are lots of carefully thought comments here which are very interesting and thought provoking. So I will continue reading.

However, I wanted to comment on one issue that has been raised - that if drugs were legal, there would not be the same level of criminality, etc... involved.

I do not believe that is the case at all - in fact, legalizing drugs in the UK would probably see a rise of organized gangs and criminality in the UK seeing it as an excuse to use the UK as a base to smuggle drugs abroad and get them into countries where they are not legal or are more expensive, etc....

Look at cigarettes and alcohol. Despite them being legal, there is a huge black market in alcohol and cigarettes across Europe, run by big gangs and organized crime, who smuggle them in from countries that are cheaper and less regulated. The gangs bully and harm local communities and vulnerable people into working for them and use their pull in those communities to grow their areas of control and strength. Cigarette trafficking is a very big business and makes millions for the gangs, and I don't think they say: "Oh, look, its legal here, we don't need to do this anymore."

I don't know about the market in weed or E (altho I bet at the top end it's not run by very pleasant people), but I would put good money on someone somewhere being killed, seriously injured, trafficked or otherwise abused in some pretty grim way for every gram of coke that's bought by some naice lawyer type who probably also buys fair-trade coffee.

aaaghhh - I knew I should have continued reading. Others have made my point very well.

mankind (sic) cannot bear very much reality as dear TS said.

My goodness when my sister worked at a Police station, she was actually shocked at how many officers were taking lines of coke to get them through night shift.

I object to the term, 'pro-drugs' as well. I am not pro-drugs. It's like calling someone who is pro-choice, pro-abortion. Of course not. I would prefer if everyone lived a happy life with no mind-altering substances at all hides glass of wine. The truth is that I have seen horrifying addiction effects. Nothing to separate between the dreadful things I have seen with legal/illegal/prescription drugs. Cannabis is a gateway if you ask people but so is alcohol.

Another point to make on the whole decriminalisation issue is about user safety. In spite of all the points people make about the different harms of various drugs, people are always going to take them. They always have. It doesn't matter if they're illegal, expensive, or socially frowned upon, I'm pretty sure drug use exists in every society in the world and to pretend it doesn't is naive and an attitude which leaves users more vulnerable than they need to be.

I am categorically not saying let's decriminalise everything - although I think you would need to look on a drug by drug basis at that - but, for example, when people take E or some of the newer drugs they have absolutely no idea what is in them. It would be so simple to enable users to test what they have bought and therefore make sure people knew exactly what they were taking.

I also think the mainstream attitude to drugs in this country - not MN, which does seem different - means it is difficult to get the message across to people about how to keep themselves safer should they choose to take drugs. Let's not pretend they won't do it - let's tell them, ok, if you want to take LSD, for example, here are the risks and here are some things you should bear in mind to stay as safe as you can be.

The majority of parents have taken drugs themselves to no real ill effect and that is bound to impact on their attitude.

Of course buying drugs encourages organised crime and exploitation of people and is a risky activity for the user. I would not want my child to use any drugs and tbh not even alcohol.

However, buying rip off DVDs also encourages organised crime, and buying cheap clothing ecourages expoitation of the people who produce it and many people have no problem with buying these items.

Vicarinatutu you have had some very close and personal experience of what happens when things go wrong with drug taking. Most people have had close and personal experience of when things don't go wrong. This, in my opinion, is why yours is not the majority viewpoint.

Good point kdiddy. I remember the 'drugs kill' message in the 80's. All that happened is I looked at my friends who used drugs and thought, no they don't. Now, if they had said, cannabis makes you boring and annoying, coke more so, heroin is very addictive and can kill, ditto fags and booze... I might have listened more. I wish the message with e wasn't, YOU'LL DIE, but your brain will be less capable of feeling rewarded and happy. Do you want to use all your happiness up now?

spamm

The kind of criminality that would be reduced would be at the user level.

I agree with you that a new kind of criminality would very likely then become a problem, but this is a problem that needs to be met at a global level. As you pointed out, the international problems regarding alcohol and cigarettes have not prevented these being viably legal.

Honesty is always the best policy.

It doesn't work when doctors lie to their patients or obscure the truth (for their own good).

It doesn't work when parents lie to their children or hide the truth (for their own good).

And it doesn't work when government lies to the public and hides the truth (for its own good).

Of the people I knew who took drugs, the ones who are now parents are (by definition) the ones who suffered no ill effects: the others didn't go on to become parents

Agreed cory, all the car users on the road today are by definition the ones who have not been horrifically killed in road accidents.

I don't accept that the majority of us have taken drugs in the past- I have never touched them - there is no way that I would take anything mind altering. I don't even take pain killers if I can manage without.
Once you are a parent you should be beyond using them. Children do as you do, not as you say so unless you are going to introduce them to your drug dealer when they are 18yrs it is deeply hypocritical.

Speaking as a parent, I teach my children to do exactly what I do... think for themselves, make the choices they feel are best, and accept the consequences.

exoticfruits do you think all parents should be like you, and beyond using anything? Because I have more time for that view, although it wouldn't work for me, I like wine. I have no time for the view that just because my drug of choice, alcohol, is legal, I am a good person/parent and another person's is illegal, cannabis, they are a bad person/parent.

I like wine but now that my DCs are 18yrs I am quite happy to go to the pub with them or serve alcohol at home. I wouldn't feel the same about illegal drugs. I never said a word about being a bad person. I think it understandable when young but people ought to grow out of it.
Cannabis has always been out, I have zero tolerance of smoking - avoid smokers at all costs.

If you like wine you do take something mind altering. I don't understand what the reason is for the distinction.

I have now got to the age where I drink it in moderation- it is also legal. I know exactly what effect it will have on my mind- I wouldn't with anything else.

I can buy it in the supermarket- I can serve it in front of everyone from my elderly great aunt downwards. They can choose not to have it, or they may be too young but it is perfectly normal and expected. My DCs can mention it in front of anyone.

I live in hippy central. Here, alcohol is 'bad' and dope is 'good'. I believe neither. I believe that people can make their own choices and we can support those who suffer from those choices (rehab etc.). Legality is circular. It seems that some people on this thread think drugs are bad because they are illegal and should be illegal because they are bad.

A couple of hundred years ago your great aunt would have been taking opium, doesn't make it great.

Whatever your views you must have to expect your DCs not to talk about it in front of some people - you could be prosecuted.

You don't know my great aunt- absolutely no way!