to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

[MarysBeard]

i have never yet, in my service, gone to an alcohol related shooting. or an alcohol related stabbing.

Next thing you will be saying you have never seen an alcohol related fight, or alcohol related domestic abuse.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I've worked in rehab and homelessness and I think you are wrong, Vicar. Alcohol is godawful. I have worked with a lot of people whose drug of choice is alcohol and have seen assaults, on men and women and there was a murder o/s my shelter. I'm not saying that a mixture isn't bad. One of the most dangerous is prescription drugs and alcohol, all legal. Very easy to OD on that combo.

[kdiddy]

This is exactly my point Vicar - they're not all the same, so people saying things like "drugs are bad" is completely unhelpful. Alcohol is a drug. So is tobacco. So is heroin.

I am sure that there is plenty of alcohol-fuelled crime, and I'd bow to your better knowledge about stuff like MCAT, but I bet there are extremely low levels of antisocial crime related to, for example, ecstasy. Not all drugs create a habit and to lump them all together is one category, like our current laws do, doesn't address the problem appropriately.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

True Rhubarb but chocolate production is involved in slavery. Almost all cash crops are bad for the majority world

[OneMoreChap]

VicarInaTutu you're job, I'm not.
I'm surprised about the absence of incidents relating alcohol. Really, really surprised.

I'd have thought the DUI/RTC were heavily drink related often - more so than drugs, and I also thought that DV was very often alcohol inspired.

As I said, this was pre-skunk/hydroponic days, but I never saw a dope induced punchup. Saw a lot of drunk assaults.

If heroin/coke were legal/taxable/cheap would you need to work as a prostitute/thieve to fund your habit?

[squoosh]

Alcohol must surely be the most destructive drug in terms of related violences.

I served as a juror on a muder trial that was purely due to a drunken fight. This is not a rare occurance.

[ThatVikRinA22]

not at all marys - but ive not attended any major incidents in which alcohol is the sole cause.

i cannot say the same of drugs. if you want to disbelieve me then fine. go ahead.

drink does cause problems - certainly it does - and yes assaults on a friday/saturday night happen because people are drunk.

but the bigger stuff, the nastier stuff, is often drug related, and the majority of the day to day stuff i interview for is drug related.

we are gathering stats at the moment in force particularly in relation to shoplifting - im not making it up but if you prefer to think i am thats up to you.

im sure it will make taking coke easier to stomach.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

No one is saying that is not your experience. However, anecdotes do not make data. Saying that things aren't solely drink related, well, they aren't solely drug related if a person has taken a mixture. We also all have our own experiences. I have seen someone aspirating bloody vomit after prescription drugs and alcohol. He almost died and I felt very helpless.

BTW I don't take drugs and don't like the effects of these either. I'm just saying that people who think alcohol and prescription legal drugs are harmless and illegal drugs are BAD are kidding themselves.

[THERhubarb]

MrsT, I hate chocolate.

Now wine, I love. And crisps.
Only Gary Linekar is abused for the sake of crisps and that doesn't count.

Dope may not harm others but it can cause schizophrenia. My dh is proof of that.

[Nancy66]

I'm not sure A&E staff and paramedics would back you up on this one Vicar.

I respect that you are reporting your personal experience but I'm pretty confident in saying that the people smashing up towns, vomiting all over the pavement and filling A&E of a weekend are drunks. I'm not saying they don't also dabble in drugs but their behaviour is fuelled by booze.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

The government thinks that alcohol related crime is an issue. Again, not saying that grugs aren't an issue. Misuse of any mind-altering substance is a problem, for the individual and society.

Rhubarb true. I think dope is very underestimated in mental health.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Grugs aren't an issue, drugs are

[ThatVikRinA22]

i just said to DH that if you worked in the NHS you would probably see differently to me - but all i can say is what i see.

having a glass of wine does not cause deaths in far off countries where you dont see the affects of what you do does it?
it doesnt cause the destruction of rain forests.
it doesnt cause gang warfare and rivalry
it doesnt cause hits to be taken out on rival suppliers and dealers

drugs do. there is a difference. the shooting i went to was about supply of coke and cannabis. so dont tell me cannabis is ok....not for the fella who is critical in hospital it isnt.

[squoosh]

I never tried Ecstasy as I read that kills off the serotonin producing cells in your brain. It is predicted that there will be an epidemic of ecstasy related depression amongst the middle aged in the next couple of decades.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Um, chocolate does... Child slavery, anyone?

[ThatVikRinA22]

next youll be telling me there is fair trade cocaine available....

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Banana massacre. Cash crops in the rest of the world are always an issue which causes violence. Again, not saying drugs aren't problematic, just to put it in context.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

If it was legal, there would be

[Scaredbutdoingit]

Vicar Sorry to jump in but to quote..

"alcohol is probably a problem sometimes - but in isolation it doesnt cause the same criminality issues as drugs."

I agree with this, but one of the huge reasons why there is so much criminality around drugs is because drugs have been made and kept illegal.

If alcohol and/or cigarettes were made illegal, a huge black market would spring up for them too, and you would find people prostituting to feed a 'cigarette habit'.

[squoosh]

Diamonds, mobile phones, clothes from Primark . . . . .

Most things we consume in the West have very dodgy origins.

[OneMoreChap]

Lot of studies on schizophrenia and cannabis.


And I'm sorry THERhubarb that your husband and his dope use caused problems. You do, of course, realise that isn't proof of anything?

[Dahlen]

Years ago I moved in very different circles and one of the reasons I left that circle was because of the drug scene. Once I'd discovered how trafficking, prostitution, theft and even murder links in with the illegal drug trade, I could no longer dismiss it as a bit of harmless fun even for those who used drugs on a purely recreational basis and remained fully functioning productive members of society.

While it is true that there are many users out there who can take ecstacy on a friday night, have a wonderful time hurting no one, and still get up and go to work to teach children on a monday, the truth of the matter is that this person has justified the human misery created in the process of getting that ecstacy tablet to her. Maybe they just haven't thought about the seedy underbelly of it all, in which case maybe they should. If they have and do it anyway, morally I think that makes them bankrupt and not fit to be in charge of children.

[squoosh]

Agree that the illegality is the cause of the criminality.

[ThatVikRinA22]

so, one incidence of striking banana workers in 1928 is comparable to the deaths caused world wide by the trafficking and production of drugs since?

i could quote a million incidences of similar - it does not justify the use of drugs though does it?

if it does, explain how?

yes all issues that need to be tackled, same as diamond mining, chocolate production and primark.....

but how does that justify using cocaine?