to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

[Nancy66]

Cocaine is a different sort of addiction to heroin - it's psychologically addictive in that you crave the confidence it gives you and how it makes you feel. There are no physical withdrawals from it.

With heroin the craving is completely physical.

[apachepony]

I would agree that class probably has something to do with it, of course!
Do you have statistics to show that cocaine and heroin cause similar amounts in the uk? I freely admit I don't know one way or the other. It's true though that those with good jobs, loving families etc prob have more reason to keep their drug taking under control. I know personally I'm a bit too fond of drinking, but cut it back largely cos I don't like how any more than 1 glass will make me feel fuzzy in work. For those with no job to get up for, and a deprived life there must seem like less reason to keep their drug taking under control.

[ThatVikRinA22]

so when people lose pieces of their nose due to coke use.....?
when people get shot by a rival supplier.....?

what you see and hear about is the sanitized version - you dont see what goes on behind the scenes where coke is concerned.

heroin is out there - you see what you see. you see the effects. but it pisses me off that this is a class issue - and it is.

those that use coke as no better than those who use heroin. they just think they are.
they are responsible for death and destruction.

[THERhubarb]

squoosh, what if someone said that most people they knew had never taken drugs?

What then? Whose experience is more valid?

Just because you know people who 'say' they have taken drugs in their youth doesn't mean to say that you can confidently predict the numbers of people taking them now.

Stats rely on peoples honesty, unless they are coming from drug treatment centres. Most people lie to make themselves look more interesting. Drugs still have an aura of glamour about them. They don't even have the stigma attached to them that smoking has.

I think if you changed peoples perception of drugs and made it seem like something disgusting and immoral, you'd find the figures of people admitting to taking them, decrease rapidly.

It's a known psychological thing.

[Aboutlastnight]

I think there is a big difference between ecstasy/cannabis and coke/heroin.

I do not like coke or people when they are on it. They are tedious. But I had some of the best nights of my life on ecstasy, I really enjoyed it. I don't do it now haven't for 10 years, as I now have responsibilities. Many, many people take recreational drugs at the weekend.

I think drug use is a public health issue not a criminal one and I would happily see it decriminalised and put into the hands of the health service to ensure people get the help they need and to take supply off the black market.

[ThatVikRinA22]

sqoosh that was what dd said about her school - of course i know different.

im a copper. i see drugs daily. their effects daily. the crime they cause daily. the parents who wonder why we are there searching their kids bedroom daily. the devastation they cause daily. im not stupid. im not bursting DDs bubble just yet. her friends dont take drugs, nor does she, she doesnt mix in those circles, so to her, girls dont take drugs.

[Aboutlastnight]

Also cocaine is now very cheap andcit's everywhere - no longer a middle class drug.

[Thumbwitch]

www.talktofrank.com/drug/cocaine Frank is a very useful resource.

[squoosh]

TheRhubarb All I was referring to was people of my own acquaintance. I didn't make any reference to my experience being 'more valid'. Please show me where I have 'confidently predicted the numbers of people taking them now'?

[ThatVikRinA22]

oh yes please - take the criminality out of drugs. good idea. id be up for that.

[noddyholder]

Drugs aren't glamorous at all although they appear in some supposedly glamorous settings. I don't think I know anyone who hasn't dabbled. My brother was an addict all through his 20s and that came from his glam lifestyle. Most of the adults I know now who still take drugs are either working in film or the medical profession . The medics inc a dentist are the worst by a long long way.

[squoosh]

if you changed peoples perception of drugs and made it seem like something disgusting and immoral, you'd find the figures of people admitting to taking them, decrease rapidly'.

Well that has been the government approach for decades, hence the illegality. Works a treat doesn't it?

No.

[HesterBurnitall]

Surely the much of the seedier side and some of what you see is a result of criminalisation, Vicar?. Prohibition was an intensely violent time, but it wasn't alcohol that caused that gang violence but the vast sums to be made due to it being an illegal substance.

[apachepony]

Sorry, missed out a word - meant to say stats showing cocaine & heroin cause the same amount of damage

[squoosh]

Agree with medics being fond of the drugs. That has been my experience. Also any chef I have ever known has been an addict or a near addict. Cocaine and booze seem to be their drugs of choice.

[THERhubarb]

squoosh - sorry some others have and I was just using your comment about your friends as an example.

And actually, the government has done a pretty good job on changing peoples perception about drink driving and about smoking. It can be done.

Right now though, it's got a rock and roll image still which is far removed from the reality.

[ThatVikRinA22]

i would be up for decriminalising drugs to see what effect it had.
same with prostitution.

[squoosh]

I would decriminalize also.

The 'immorality' for me is the way that gangsters, pushers prey on vulnerable communities. A professional person buying and taking cocaine is making an informed decision, a 14 year old being given some heroin 'for free' isn't.

[noddyholder]

I don't think people are pretending tbh. I wish they were and it was not as rife. So many women take coke to stay thin and keep going. I have not mixed in those circles in years but when I do I am always amazed that they are still openly snorting off the dinner table and washing down pills with their waitrose wine! My brother and my oldest best friend both are film producers predominantly pop videos and drugs is a major part of any shoot and it holds up and interrupts everything.My brother hates it but loves his work he has seen several big family type stars snorting coke off dirty toilet seats on shoots and then going home to wife and kids and 'perfect' life as seen in hello mag

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

OP, YANBU.

I find it interesting that people can take cocaine and fund all sorts of nasty illegal stuff through their purchase, but then insist on buying free range chickens or fair trade coffee. Isn't this a bit of hypocrisy?

[Nancy66]

Vicar - this was done in Portugal.

Overall it was considered to be a success.

Drug use fell, HIV infection fell, death by drugs fell....I don't know about the crime issue.

[DinosaursOnASpaceship]

I am 100% anti drugs.

I used to smoke cannabis as a teenager (although have never tried anything else) and it made me lazy, smelly, thick and I don't know why I ever thought it was a good idea.

I went on a date once with a nice man and it was all going well until we started discussing drugs and he said he "had tried heroin once to see what it was like" at which point I decided he was a twat and left. What sort of idiot decides to try heroin to see what it's like, knowing how addictive it is, knowing the effect it could have on their life.

I have no time for drug users.

[noddyholder]

I don't think anyone who has never done drugs does know how addictive it is. There is always the idea that you will be the one who can take or leave it. That is how many people end up in trouble.

[ThatVikRinA22]

legal or not i would not want my kids involved in any drugs scene. i suppose from the point of view of my job i would like to see if it made a difference, certainly there would need to be some sort of regulation.

i would worry about the health effects.

and of course, if they were legal, there would be no barrier to trying them. that would bother me personally....

maybe rather than decriminalise all drugs, we should licence and regulate but take the criminal element out of it?