to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

DorisBoltneck Sorry if you feel I'm degrading anyone's experience; I'm disagreeing with a view.

We agree about taking responsibility for your own actions, and I think we'll leave it there.

is the fact that a great many of them have probably been up someones arse at one time or another

Sorry, but that made me laugh, I think it's way off the mark too. No doubt some are ingested by drug mules but the vast majority of drugs aren't coming into the country via lone mules digestive tracts.

Most cannabis now is now grown in the uk, indeed it's exported from what I've read. With class A's the quantities that enter to country are just too large for mules to be doing the majority of the work.

I'm afraid I don't think that really 'puts the legal vs illegal drug debate in its place' , there is much more to it.

Yes, it's a sweeping generalisation based on anecdotal evidence. I know of one user who used to 'kindly' supply friends. He used to carry his little bag of 'E's' in his arse. Just round and about the place, not a drug mule, not smuggling or anything. He said it was the safest place to keep them- maybe it was just his personal kink......

Grins at "based on anecdotal evidence"
Thanks, that made me smile on a busy day...

DorisBoltneck yes but with the greatest of respect some person you used to know putting bags of e up their bum does not really equate to a fact that a great many of them [ drugs ] have probably been up someone's bum at one time or another'

getmorenappies Thats what I just said

I'm trying to be satirical about all the posters that come on giving their expert opinions on the drug use of the whole nation, based on their own experience.

Just because one person keeps their stash up their bum to avoid detection in case they get stopped by the police means nothing....I'm sure some women dealers use their vagina for instance.

As Vicar says, if she could only tell what she see's. There's an awful lot of unpalatable stuff goes on

:)

Do you think people would still be carrying drugs 'up their bum' if they were legal?

Vicar (as much respect as I have for her view, despite its opposition to mine), is not the only person posting here with extensive experience of the 'unpalatable' side of drugs, and is not the only person who still works with it on a day-to-day basis.

So if you believe that everyone supporting the decriminalisation and/or legalisation of drugs is speaking from ignorance, I'm telling you you are wrong.

Do you think people would still be carrying drugs 'up their bum' if they were legal?

The person I'm thinking of .......probably , yes

Well then thats another kettle of fish.

That's where I keep my car keys. I can lock my car by just clenching.

Sorry I havent read the whole thread. But for me the reason that I think drugs are just shit isnt necessarily because they ruin people's lives (after all, even if you become an addict you are still responsible for taking that first hit), but because of the devestating effect the drugs trade has on many poor people all around the world.

Every year thousands of people, including kids, die as a direct result of the drugs industry and I am sorry, but I just couldnt hoover a line of coke up my nose knowing that, no matter how cool I thought I looked. I remember Kate Moss doing some promotional charity video to do with global poverty a few years ago and I remember thinking what a fucking hypocrite.

Oh and also that fact that all the people I have ever met when they have been on drugs have been total TWATS.

And I have to say that I agree with the OP - I have noticed a bit of a 'right on, I was a bit keeerrrazy back in the day' attitude towards drugs on Mumsnet.

filetheflightoffancy, In total agreement about how unethical cocaine is. It's funny, because I know a few very naice middle class people who are always banging on about eco this and ethical that who like to take coke.

I suppose some Ecover cleaning products and shopping at Sainsbury's makes up for it.

my Grandmother died whilst receiving 3 times the amount of diamorphine that would kill a grown man (though of lung cancer).

she weighed 6 stone.

she'd been taking it since she was 21 on prescription.
it never affected her behaviour. it didn't kill her (smoking did).

if you think heroin is an evil all by itself, take heed....

Haven't read whole thread and this has probaly been said but alcohol is a drug (which just happens to be legal) and actually does a lot more harm than most illegal drugs. Is the the legality you have a problem with? How about smoking?

file don't you think the effect of illegality is what currently causing havoc in Mexico?
and hindering coalition efforts in Afghanistan ?

You should read 'High Society' by Ben Elton, great book.

"Smoking a joint has the same effect on the lungs as smoking 20 normal cigarettes."

i have seen a study where cannibis smoking was found to have a mildly preventative effect on lung cancer (though not on all cancers) - in what way do you mean?

The counter-arguments about the ethics surrounding drug production (for those who would prefer a summary rather than reading the whole thread) can be summed up as followed:

a) drugs can be produced ethically if they are legal. Hospitals have been sourcing and producing theirs for years without any of the same problems. Almost 1/3 of heroin (aka diamorphine) users are on prescription and are supplied legally and cleanly by hospitals. Illegality forces the whole operation underground, and thats when things get messy.
Additionally, some drugs could easily be cultured/supplied by the users themselves if they were legal (cannabis plants for example).

b) people who believe they cannot justify buying anything that contributes to significant human misery (via the supply system) need to be sure they have looked carefully enough at the products they do buy.
Many products (chocolate is just one example) come from unethical supply chains involving human slavery, death, child abuse, and other unsavoury things. Even fairtrade products cannot accurately track all their sources, they just do the best they can.
If you put petrol in a car (for example), you are creating demand for a limited resource that is responsible for vast human suffering.

c) An unethical supply system does not mean the end product is bad (and should be banned). It means the supply system needs to be sorted out!

Not sure if I missed any, but its too late to go trawling through the thread just to make sure.

Scaredbutdoingit . I agree, but I just get pissed of with smug middle class greenies who cherry pick the most eco friendly and ethical solutions to suit them - ie make sure your friends know you buy organic food from the farmers market, but you drive there in your 4X4 that you don't actually need.

edgar yes absolutely, although I dont think that legalising all drugs all over the world would somehow magically eradicate these problems - there will always be something else to illegally trade.

I was more coming from the point of view that if you take drugs, knowing that you are feeding an industry in which people are killed on a regular basis, then you are a bit of a knob. Particualrly if, as Lesley said, you often bang on about how you like to buy 'ethical and fair trade' at the same time.

I agree with you LesleyPumpshaft, but its the same kind of annoyance I feel when I see people pointing the finger at people who 'dare' to buy drugs with unethical supply chains, when you can almost guarantee they are eating, wearing, using, or sitting on something that comes from unethical supply chains (human slavery, child labour, deaths, etc).

Thats not to say we shouldn't point out wrong where we see it. But it would be more productive to spend our righteous fury on minimising the blood on our own hands, than looking for it on others.

Nobody can be 100% ethical. I only get annoyed at people when they are smug about it tbh.

Why can't these coke sniffers just take some magic mushrooms, grow their own bits and bobs and weave lentils instead, if they want to be all 'cool' and ethical?

I don't take drugs btw, I'm odd enough as it is thank you very much.

I really don't like smug or judgemental anything.

Analysis of problems, and sincere discussion about solutions.