to not want school to teach my kids how to speak in the way the teachers wants?

[bellabreeze]

Having irish accents the teacher of some of my kids has told me they would do little speech classes so they speak different.. its not the accent but its things like saying 'ting' not 'thing' and dat not that and stuff like that really.. I think.. I don't think it is important enough to waste time doing? But maybe I am wrong?

So you know some people who couldn't pronounce "th".

Is that directed at me Cote?

Yes.

I know people who wouldn't know what you're talking about if you suggested they were pronouncing "th" incorrectly. They might be able to pronounce it the English way with a lot of effort but they would go back to "d" pretty fast.

"English way". You mean... correctly?

what, I think you're paraphrasing my post, which didn't actually say that.

I merely pointed out that 'th' isn't a sound that is natural to Celtic languages, so there are valid reasons not to want to adopt it.

'Th' is a fairly uncommon sound, and isn't found in lots of languages.

I never suggested Irish people were unable to say it. If I believed that, this debate would be a great deal shorter, wouldn't it!

Aha! DH has got home and reminded me that his missing phoneme is one of the "ng"s.

He is adamant that there is no difference between "singer" and "finger" - even when I have pronounced them for him as clearly as I can. It is because he is Black Country innit.

No I mean the English way Cote. Why is the Irish way automatically wrong?

I suspect people who think 'th' can't be 't' are getting hung up on the fact it's two letters. They somehow think it'd be confusing if both 't' and 'th' sound as 't'.

But there are loads of combinations of letters that do exactly the same redundant thing.

I'd say my Mother (Mudder) who graduated from Mary I in 1969 and has lectured there and elsewhere would cringe at your remarks CailinDana.
I expect the 18 teachers on that side of the family would too. A lot of them (dem) are from the midlands. Not sure that (dat) amounts to any sort of excuse/explanation.

Perhaps I misunderstood the Celtic reference LRD. Perhaps I was overcome by the whiff if BS.

I've so much to say on this thread but I'm going to bed. Oh dear! Is it only 8.30?

*whiff of BS.

I think you did misunderstand, what.

If you think something I'm saying is BS, you might say why, instead of making PAs. It rather suggests you don't actually have a point, doesn't it?

I'm quite surprised by the assertion (clearly by Irish people) that dis and dat is accepted as "correct" in Ireland. I'm Irish, and lived there (Dublin and Limerick) until my mid twenties and whenever I pronounced my "th"s as "d" I was corrected - by my mother (from Offaly), father (from Monaghan) and a whole range of primary school teachers from all over the country. My take would have been that it was accepted as regional variation, but not necessarily seen as correct, and that it was important to at least understand which was the correct version even if I didn't use it all the time.

Just saying what my personal experience from Ireland is. If the OP's children were going to school in Ireland, it wouldn't surprise me if the teacher "corrected" (and I use the word not intending to offend anyone) her children in their pronounciation.

Why don't you explain it to me better LRD? I'd really appreciate dat.

Which bit?

De hole Celtic ting....

'Th' isn't originally a Celtic sound.

Happy?

Good.

Now grow the fuck up.

Ooooh, can anyone remember the link to a video of a man apparently saying "far" and "bar" at different times? It proves pronunciation isn't as clear-cut as people like to think.

It's not the Irish way, it is the way some people you know mispronounce "th".

Irish people I know don't say dis dat etc.

Out of curiosity, I just looked up Hiberno-English and pronunciation. Pronouncing "th" as "d" is not a widely-recognized Hiberno-English variation common to all Irish people.

Why should it be, though?

There are lots of accents out there. This is the OP's accent.

Evidently it's not a mispronunciation: her children spell the word just fine, so they understand the correspondences, they just happen to have a different accent from the teacher.

garlic - no, but I'd be interested?

Worcester
Leicester
Colonel
rough
dough

I wonder how children learnt to spell these words. The first three sound nothing like they're written. The last two are spelt more or less the same, but have totally different endings. There are many examples of this in the English language.

There are also many words which sound identical,but have completely different meanings, e.g. two, to and too; there and their; principal and principle etc.

Strangely enough regardless of these anomalies we (or hopefully the majority of us!) will have learnt to spell and use the appropriate words correctly - regardless of how they sound, or indeed how they are pronounced.

One particular form of spoken English is not superior to another form. It's arrogant in the extreme to suggest otherwise, and very insulting to the Irish, Scottish, Welsh and in fact to many people in England who don't conform to what has been deemed acceptable.

It's utter bollocks (or is that ball-ocks.......)

Incidentally, I defy anyone to be able to determine my accent by what I've written above. I do of course have an accent, but I think my written English is just fine.

Caillin is claiming it's how all Irish people speak. It is just not true, except maybe in her corner of Ireland.

Oh, fair point, yes, I agree there's loads of Irish accents, cote.

LRD I expect you a unfamiliar with Gaelige or the language widely spoken in this country until the introduction of English to the mainstream population in the 19th century.

If you were you would be truly mortified by your utterly ludicrous and misguided notions about our linguistic heritage. Té go dtí an Ghaeltacht agus bí ag foghlaim.