to think benefits are a safety net against poverty, not a cushion against an uncomfortable life ?

[TalkinPeace2]

Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"

Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day.
No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance.

The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more.

The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things).

I am not smug. But I wouldn't expect benefit if I owned two houses. I think it's the expectations that cause some of the problems. I wouldn't think I was poor as a couple if we owned two houses between us. That is not my idea of poverty. Those threads do stir up people!!

sammy thank you for responding for me! We live in London in a three bed flat my dp wage pays rent, I pay all bills, child care, food etc that's why cannot afford to buy or get married

How much would you suggest people saved? We had savings before when dh lost his job. We'd managed to save £3000. When you have 5 kids, and housing costs £3000 doesn't go far.

Now we have nothing and are claiming everything we can, because dh has paid NI since he was old enough to and we'd quite like not to be homeless.

We hope not to be in this situation too long, but it's going to be a long time till we are in a position to start saving money again.

We have no car, no holiday, and our tv is flat screen but it's a few years old, the kids live in hand me downs, no designer clothes and we've just spent our last £10 till Tuesday buying crap for dinner. Yeah, living on benefits is great, we're living a life of pure luxury here.

So the London house prices are just simply far far too high. I think that problem should be addressed. Quite how nobody seems to have a clue.

Er, I think roughly: If you have capital of over £16,000 you cannot claim benefits. For capital between 16k and 6k £1 for every £250 of capital is withdrawn (per week). This is called tarriff and it's taken off HB and Income Support/JSA etc. If you deprive yourself of capital (by spending all your savings frex) they still withdraw your "notional income", but if you spend it down over time you're ok. They don't publish the rules on what you're allowed to buy with your capital, but you can be punished for breaking them.

Redundancy payments may count as capital. Paying off your mortgage with your redundancy package may count as deprivation of capital and disqualify you from JSA.

Vivienne my friends do not 'expect benefits' but when the DH was out of work for a month due to an illness caused by inadequate nutrition my point is that there is poverty all around us. Their two DC aren't eligible for free school meals, but had they been then they might have avoided the deficiencies. There's no provision for people in these situations. A second home doesn't feed a child. The inverse snobbery here is cruel and bitter.

Fairyjen I'm from the same neck of the woods. My husband is a higher earner but we couldn't afford to buy anything until we emigrated. My sister on the other hand, lived in Manchester in a beautiful 3 bed Victorian house which cost her and her husband 60k (about 10 years ago).

yes and im sure they never dreamed they would have negative equity

they wanted 2 houses to amass a small fortune and be greedy,but it didnt work out like that

are they not renting one of them out then and getting a good rent back

sorry my heart does not go out to people that try and play the property market for huge gain,no wonder people cant buy if so many have a few properties and push the price up for those that dont have one home of there own

I dont think it's just London house prices tbh my family live up north and so earn lower wages, therefore even with lower house prices you ain't actually in any better a position.

I'm sorry if I upset you Fairyjen. Things in this country are very far from acceptable and times are very very tough for a lot of people. If I was younger I would certainly think about emigrating. A second home doesn't feed a child. Honestly, I cannot understand that. If you have assets you can't expect people on low wages to pay taxes to feed your children. Sorry but that is my opinion.

Working tax credits are a good thing.

Child tax credits, not so much. They encourage people to have children they can't afford, and they don't support workers because you don't have to be in work to get them, which makes a mockery of the whole thing.

sammy maybe we should emigrate to.... My dp has Canadian roots... Right move.com here I come

I live in the north and we earn less up here and have a big ish mortgage. The only reason our mortgage isn't as big as some peoples is that we got onto the property ladder 12 years ago, pure luck that's all.

thekids is it inconceivable to you that two people could have a house each when they meet in their early forties? One was being let but the tenant ripped them off. It's now for sale for as little as they can risk taking for it. They have also recently secured a new tenant and the DW is in the process of registering as a CM. It has been alluded to that they've run up significant debt on CCs having exhausted their savings. They could have put off having DC but it wasn't an option at her age. Not an impossible scenario IMO.

nirvana, short term support to reap long term gain us exactly what the system should be about. In your position I would make the same choices. But I wouldn't feel guilty. You will have your chance to pay into the pot when you finish education and your dd is older.

Yeh right, 26k here pffft managers don't even get that!!!!
Try saving on £16,000 a year and then take a for when you end up in the situation of me & my dh!
We had to apply for all the benefits going with the s* redundancy pay he got.
Guess what it aint all that cushty on jobseekers as he has to look for work each & every day, in a county where there isn't a lot of jobs on offer and even those that are, are for minimum wage and still want x amount of nvqs & experience
Oh and jsa is crap money too, £111 a week for both of us thats it and child tax credits which cover our food bill & some essentials for the kids.
My dh desperatley wants a job but A: There aren't many B: Low wages for high experience which my dh doesn't have.

nirvana both my dp and me went to uni after having dd1 we are saddled with debt (student loans) but it was worth it. Keep your chin up and enjoy precious time with you lo.

Anyone taking a break from posting to watch x factor?

or ?

Fuck that. If a person loses their job through no fault of their own why the hell should they not claim out of a system that they've paid into? JSA is exactly for people in the situation you describe in the OP.

I'm going to watch The Thick of It on iplayer. Was working last night so i missed it. Wish op was half so entertaining. Then Sopranos.

I am off to watch telly now on my crappo flat screen lol

we are watching "rescue me" Dennis Leary its really good :)