to think benefits are a safety net against poverty, not a cushion against an uncomfortable life ?

[TalkinPeace2]

Prompted by a thread where somebody said "DH has lost his job, what benefits are we entitled to?"

Sorry, but its the duty of ALL those on more than average wages (£26k per household) to put money aside for a rainy day.
No wonder the country is up to its eyes in debt if people first think about benefits rather than self reliance.

The benefit system should be to prevent true poverty, no more.

The American system has too many gaps. Most European systems, including that in the UK, provide far too comfortable a cushion, at far too high a cost to the next generation (as historically current over generous benefits have been kicked down the road to be paid for by our children who will never be entitled to such things).

Cold weather payments?

ps, and another thing, I can honestly say (with some pride actually) that for the 13 years that I earned between 13k up to 40k when I resigned to have my second dc, I never once gave a thought to what my taxes went on. I understood and supported the need for social welfare system.

Is it housing benefit you have a problem with?

But that is the situation, now. It's a safety net for the poorest and no more. The woman posting in money matters isn't entitled to benefits. She must support her husband entirely or give up her job and they both go on benefits. Which is the mad thing about the benefits system. You are punished for trying. The only way to not be hassled to death is to just go home and watch telly forever and never ever do anything again. Then you get enough to live on, for now.

I just... don't think that's a very good plan. For us, as a country, I mean. It's not brilliant.

Wages are too low, but tax credits are also very generous.

I worked out what I would be entitled to as a single Mum if DH and I were to split up a few weeks ago. I put in the figures as if I received no maintenance, and based on what my own personal income is. I know it's enough to live on because I managed fine before DH and I got together, my income has only gone up by £100 per month in that time, and I'm paying off debt.

I was staggered to see that according to the entitled to website, I would get nearly £90 a week in CTC. Ridiculous.

I thought it was tax credits white cherry. I am confuzzled, maybe its all hand outs from the government

when i first started working in my young and carefree single days I was on 21000ish, which I think was 1000ish a month after tax

where I live, a two bed flat (we are a family of 4) would run at the cheapest maybe £600. You can indeed feed a family of 4 on £50 a month, if you have the energy, creativity, and stamina to constantly be thinking how can I do this cheaper. I often do, but I am fortunate enough that when I don't, it doesn't really matter.

Anyway, let's imagine the children are continent and don't need nappies, because those suckers are expensive. I have accounted for 800 of the 1000ish pcm now, without yet having paid a bill, or council tax. Way back when I paid council tax monthly, it was 50ish pounds a month. Let's pretend gas&electric are 10 pounds a month each (weak and hollow laughter).

600 + 200 + 50 + 20 = £870

£130 left over for the month, to pay for transport, incidentals, emergencies for the kids (new uniform, shoes) and then to save. let's say I am somehow able to never ever spend any of that £130 cos I am so frugal and admirable.

I will need to save every bloody penny for half a year to cover just one month of living expenses, and all it will take is one relatively minor event (car breaks down! hours change and don't match up with school hours!) to tip the whole thing into catastrophe

lizlemon I meant for the op to sell computer not you. I'm in same position, how could I watch Jeremy Kyle very say if sold my tv etc!

Tax credits are a good thing though aren't they? that way people are rewarded for working. isn't that what benefit-begrudgers want?!?

Hey, I earn 32k a year, my partner just over 20. Still can't afford to save. Can't even afford to get married or buy our own house . But at no point do I have problem with people getting benefits etc. if I lost my job you could bet your ass I'd claim all I could!

i should say that that is not my reality. it doesn't take much thinking to see how it might be so for others. my stupid example didn't even take into account childcare costs, or petrol.

when i was young and single, and living in a houseshare, 21000 was great, I had money for all sorts. as a wage to support a family of 4 on, i can't imagine how to make it work without access to some kind of benefit/family support.

Vivienne so you're not happy to support a family who are struggling to feed themselves well enough to avoid ill health, while they await a house sale? These are honest, hardworking, frugal people (much more than most - no TV, second hand or homemade everything).

I must say I don't quite understand how people can be earning £52,000 between them and not to be able to get married or buy their own house. Not saying it's not true but I don't understand it.

Tax credits arent good.

They are hiding the real problem in this country.

Wages are too low.

They should get a loan against the value of their house. Sorry but benefits systems is not for two home owners. I better get off this thread quick!!

I read a thread yesterday where the OP's husband had lost his job but if I remember correctly they DID have savings didn't they? They had planned to look after themselves and the thread was more of a "planning for worst case scenarios" type in case her husband didn't find a job and the savings run out.

Anyway, You are asking for constructive ideas. I wonder if you have any yourself? Because you can't just come across a problem and scream and shout for others to hand out the answers to you surely.....?

Can you still claim benefits if made redundant? .... And keep the redundancy money?

when we both worked full time we had almost 60k a year and with no kids it was fab. I never complained about where my £600 a month paye was going, didn't really care to be honest. Happy to help those little old dears turn on their heating or a family to eat fresh fruit and veg.
If we start saying x y & z should get tax money we are going to become more like a communist state, everyone out for themselves and stand on the heads of the poor.

I must say I don't quite understand how people can be earning £52,000 between them and not to be able to get married or buy their own house. Not saying it's not true but I don't understand it.

Standard mortgage lending advice is max 3 times salary for a single person or 2.5 times salaray for a couple. So max mortgage would be 130k. In the area I come from you couldn't buy a flat for that.

Just looked it up on rightmove, cheapest in my home town is currently 189k.

Message poster poachedeggs Sun 30-Sep-12 18:33:40
I know a family of educated professionals who own two homes. Due to the housing market failing and the arrival of their children at the same time, they are on an incredibly tight budget

i fail to see how a family with two homes should be seen as struggling,or is this the new middle class poverty,you couldnt make it up

Vivienne in negative equity that's not going to happen. It's a short term issue but meanwhile they were literally ill as a result. They deserve that because they had a home each when they met? People may hate homeowners but if they were tenants they'd have housing benefit as a safety net. Who pays for that?

It is inconceivable to me that the situation could arise but it did, and probably is all over the UK just now.

How much are you supposed to be able to have saved in order to ensure that you never need to rely on benefits? Surely most people's savings can only last so long?

It's never a good idea to be smug about one's own position. You never know what hard times might befall you and your family, and your savings might all have to go in one fell swoop.

thekids have you heard of negative equity?

I'm clearly a horrible immoral person reading this and will probably be judged and looked down on for what im about to post but here goes..
I found myself pregnant at 17, I was using protection in the form of the pill and condoms, I didn't find out I was pregnant untill 8 weeks, I have always said I would never and could never have a termination. Does it make me a bad person that I didn't want to have a healthy baby extracted from me because I still lived at home with my mum?
I had a job, I saved and bought everything for my daughter myself. I was also at college, I went untill 39 weeks pregnant and went back when DD was 12 weeks old. My course is 4 days a week, I couldn't go back to work after maternity leave because all my wages would go on childcare and tbh how would I have time to spend time with my DD?
I live in a private rented house which i moved into when DD was 4 months old, I recieve every benefit I can and living is still very tight.
I don't have a massive tv or widescreen goat
I do not plan to stay on benefits as a lifestyle choice, i can't wait to finish my course, do a degree and get a job to pay back what i have recieved through paying tax in the future.
Not really sure what the point in my post is but it makes me angry that people judge me when they dont know what it's like to be in my situation.
I feel like a benefits scrounger, i feel guilty that my DD is here, but why should i when im so determined to pay it back and so grateful that the safety net is there so me and DD can get by and feed ourselves.

Sorry about spelling and punctuation, on my phone