To never want to do another playdate again and to think that ds really shouldn't be like this at 5 years old

[lecce]

I am sitting here in tears after another disastrous playdate, feeling like we have done something seriously wrong with ds. I would love someone to tell me whether or not I am over-reacting and this is, in fact, normal five year old behaviour.

The problem is he is absolutely terrible at sharing or, from what I can see, accepting that other people have different ideas for games etc. As soon as things are not going his way he throws the most almighty tantrums with red face, tears and screaming. Then he just lies on the floor sucking his thumb. None of the other children I see him with ever do this, or, if they do, it is to a far lesser extent and they seem to snap out of it far more easily.

He just seems downright selfish and unpleasant, though I hate myself for writing that. I feel that soon no one will want to see us as he is just such hard work. He is easier at other people's houses but that is because they all share their stuff, unlike him .

I suppose it is worse because I work full-time so the weekend is all I have and now I feel this one has been dominated by a totally shit event that showed him at his worst.

When it happens we take him aside and talk to him calmy but it doesn't get through to him. He has got a lot worse over the last 6 months or so, though I can't see any reason for the change. We have never used methods such as the naughty-step etc.

His behaviour is excellent at school, in fact, his teacher once commented that he is more emotionally mature than many others in the class

Oh ok, was a party yesterday and a mum was going through exactly same thing with her ds (5), so unless you are her it is not uncommon.

Thank you so much for all the advice. I am feeling a bit better and we have had a cuddle and chat about what happened. He says that every time he plays people don't let him do what he wants - the issue seems to be the games they play rather than his being possessive over the toys themselves, iyswim. Mind you, having said that, a particular low point of today was when we adjourned to the park and he refused to let his friend, who had come on the scooter with no bike, have a go on his bike. I didn't know whether to try and make him- it had been the other parents' idea and, tbh, by that point I was ready to tell them all just to go.

Anyway, he loves having the playdates and does want them but I do think we need to do more meeting in parks etc rather than houses - that is a good idea. I also think people could be right that he needs more downtime, as do I.

He does have a younger brother and I don't feel his run-ins with him are any worse than the average siblings', tbh, it really is friends at home that he has the issue with. In fact, I posted the other day about another friend we are having issues with who bosses him around a fair bit when they go to the park after school - I wonder if his frustrations with her are spilling over to other situations. In fact, I think at school he is very compliant - not just with the teacher but with other children. I know he would be mortified if he ever went on the 'sad side' (has never been on it and has just started Y1) and I wonder if he gets frustrated a lot with 'giving in' to other children and has over-asserted himself in the safety of his own home? Or is that the biggest load of bullshit anyone has ever posted in an effort to make excuses for their child's bad behaviour?

Anyway, we don't really do punishments but certainly do do natural consequences so will onsider telling him we will have to cut short playdates if he behaves like that again. Problem is, dh loves them as we all get on with the other parents and he has just commented how well it went and that ds is 'just being 5'. .

No, I think you might be understanding your DS quite well there.

As to sharing, it's tricky. I am an adult, and I don't really like being made to share, to be honest. The other parent was being a bit presumptive about the bike - it was putting your DS on the spot. If he had been told to look after the bike, or it was new, I can understand his worries. As adults, we know how to say "sorry, but no", but children don't usually have that option - it is very frustrating for them.

I think the issue is down to him being a bit territorial over his space and his toys, hence why he is fine in the park and at other people's houses. My ds (also 5) really doesn't like sharing, but is getting better. Most adults don't really 'share' their stuff and there is plenty of opinions as to whether making children share is really all that's it's cracked up to be!

Don't really have much advise, but perhaps do playdates without the other parents, that way, if he really does have a major meltdown, it isn't under the glare of another adult (which may make it easier for you to handle too)

sorry, advice

My oldest used to want to control all the games and would often sulk if people didn't want to play her way. She would tell me that other kids weren't playing with her at school but i realised after a while that they did play with her, they just didn't do exactly as she told them!

It doesn't sound as extreme as your situation though. I think she grew out of it towards the end of reception.

We also went though a stage when my younger one started asserting themselves and got fed up with being bossed around. We had a bit of fighting and screaming for a while and we just reminded our oldest over and over again that our youngest had their own ideas about how they wanted to play and didn't like being bossed around.

At the park could your boy have gone on the scooter while the boy had a go on the bike? Or if perhaps he doesn't like sharing it perhaps leave it at home for a while.

My older kids (age 7 and 5) both have loads of friends and I would say play very well with others - we live in the kind of place where kids call for each other on their own and "play out" and both play with friends daily in this way

but

I would never expect or ask either of my children to share their bikes, with each other or with friends, and they never do, nor do their friends. Bikes are something special, there are a few things children shouldn't be expected to share, I'd say bikes are one, like their absolute favourite bedtime soft toy and a few other very special, favourite toys.

I sometimes read posts where people complain that they've gone wrong somewhere and their older child is a spoilt brat because they wouldn't share their brand new birthday present toys with a younger sibling, and I think why on earth should they, poor older child!

If you arrived at a meet up in the car and your friend arrived by bus, your jaw would presumably hit the floor if your friend said "let me have a go at driving your car" and some authority figure said yes lecce be a nice friend, don't be selfish, hand over your car keys...

Sharing a chocolate bar or communal toys or a big box of lego/ playmobile etc. is all well and good and kids do need to learn to share, but some parents are a little bit crazy IMO when they think children have to share everything, we live in a society which, like most industrial, western societies, recognises private property, and our children are immersed in that (they get given their own personal possessions for birthdays etc.) but then we apply a double standard to our children and expect them to act as if they live on an extreme form of commune.

I'm not sure your son is in the wrong, I rather think the other parent is! Expectations are perhaps the route of the problem more than a relatively normal 5 year old by the sound of it!

I wouldn't bother with playdates until he's at least 8.
By all means meet up with other kids in the park etc. but spend some time with him yourself esp if you're working ft.

Lots of time for all that playdate shite experience later.

Also, as I said earlier, an hour's one on one play is enough for a 5 year old.

I disagree with the "too young for playdates" argument though as my (only just) 5 year old has friends around all afternoon frequently, and he isn't especially mature. I think it is unreasonable to expect a child to share every single thing they own, and that too much supervision can be worse than too little, children need a bit of space to find their own solutions...

Try taking turns instead of sharing.

''OK wait for xx to Finnish his turn then you can have a turn''

''xxx can have 5 mins then you can have 5 mins''

I have also used ''OK, if you won't share the toy, then I'm putting it away''. And then put it away for the rest of the day.

Also avoid play dates if your son is exhausted.

Rewards for each time he does good sharing?

I think taking turns is a better way of putting it than sharing, sometimes little ones get confused if its THEIR toy they cant get to grips with the sharing thing cos it is well THEIR toy ,

OK just reading your last post. Can you observe him playing with friends and see what happens. It could be one of two things - he is being dominating in regards to playing or he is sick of being dominated. If you watch the build up closely and intervene if necessary.

We had a particular problem with one child making my boy play certain games or making him take on certain roles. I can't stress just how forceful this child was.

lecce glad you are feeling a bit better. agree that a neutral place to meet is a good idea. don't worry, they all get there in the end.

I don't think you're alone I have definitely encountered this with quite a few dc. Not so much the tantrum, but the not wanting to play anything but their own choice of game.

My dd gets really angry with one of the girls in her group of friends or exactly this reason. The hard thing is finding a way for her to deal with it without getting angry and upset.

If I know I've got a dificult friend coming round I do activities with them. Which could be a craft thing or a board game or some cooking. If you leave them to go up to a bedroom and play, it can end in tears really easily at this age. There are friends where I know 9 times out of 10 they'll be ok just playing on their own. But there are others where I know 9 times out of 10 they'll fall out.

He sounds perfectly normal to me but just gets really angry if he's never allowed to choose the game. Which you can understand to some extent. The solution is perhaps to talk to him about what he could do in that situation.

My dd's teacher was saying to me that they get into a situation and they have no idea how to resolve it. How to verbalise what the problem is to the other person and find a solution.

Lots of preparation beforehand and maybe some role playing. You could pretend to be a child and you won't share your toy with him, and ask him how he feels. Or 'throw a tantrum' yourself and ask him how he feels. We do this a lot. The kids find it hilarious that their Mum is pretending to be 'naughty', but the message does get through (in the end). I do also agree with the poster who said that what are the consequences of bad behaviour? He does need to learn to share, and not to dominate other kids, take turns etc. And no, 5 is not too young. I teach my 3 yr olds this. It's better for you to give him some consequences than for other children to punish him for his ill treatment of them.

I really don't think him doing well at school is all that relevant - sorry. It is great that he behaves well at school but is a separate issue as he is with a group of other DC under control of a teacher.

I'm assuming playdates are having friends round to play and I cannot see the big fuss about them. They are a normal part of life surely. We have friends round weekly, always have had. Maybe that is why he struggles, late introduction to normality of life?

It does sound like you don't discipline him from your posts. Natural consequences, like going home, are what I would call a punishment or discipline - it is terminology. He should have been having those consequences for quite some time IMO. My friends with DC and I have all done this from much younger. As for sharing, it is something that needs to start really early - you share with them, they share with you, talk about how nice it is to share. And YY MAKE them share if they won't.

I don't know - as you say it's terminology. I do try and deal with his behaviour, using whatever method seems appropriate at the time. He doesn't run amok while we sit there smiling weakly, if that is what you are implying. You may have a point about late introduction to this type of thing but there is not much I can/could do about that. For various reasons we didn't have access to lots of people with similar-aged dc when he was younger .

Of course we have talked about the benefits of sharing from early on, doing exactly the things you describe. He is pretty good at sharing with his brother (not perfect but not worryingly bad) and is great at sharing food.

Tbh, I don't really see the point of forcing them to share. Doesn't it contradict telling them how nice it is to share if they are forced into it before they feel it, iyswim. I have always wanted my dc to learn things through experience and learn to make choices, rather than us forcing/training him into compliance. But, yes, yesterday's events did make me wonder whether I have gone badly wrong .

Anyway, as I said, it is less about sharing and more about the games they play and who decides them. looking back on it now, I think ds wanted to play more role-play type games but the other child was engrossed in the toys - not surprisingly as they are things he doesn;t have at home. I honestly think that, to an extent, ds wanted attention, not his toys. I will admit that he really didn't want to share his bike, though.

Anyway, thanks for making it clear it ais all my fault .

ah OP don't take it like that - he is only 5 and even if he behaves well in school, that is a pretty structured environment where presumably the teacher sets the rules and activities - free play is a different scenario. Can you just chat with him about what to do if his friend wants to play something different from him? He's very young, and as others have suggested maybe you doing something with him and his friend is the way to go.

FWIW my 6 yo sometimes has outbursts if others at play-dates don't fall in line with what she wants. Its not about learning to share, but learning to compromise and be considerate of others, often difficult to do for children! Things can be very black and white at that age - other people can be a bit of a pain, and his sense of what it is to play with someone can be different from others. All part of learning to be in the world with other people!

Anyway, thanks for making it clear it ais all my fault

In that case there are lots of us doing it wrong too. Because we have this sort of issue plenty of times and it's not always initiated by my dd.

He's only 5. He spends his weekdays at school in a structured environment where he is required to do what he is told and I suspect he just needs some less structured time at home. It might be that he wants playdates but you are the parent, if he's not coping well with them then leave it a while. I know that when my dcs started school we chose much less formal arrangements, usually out of the house or perhaps just playing with a friend who lived nearby. Arrangements that could easily be brought to a close without a drama, basically.

I do actually think it is important to learn to share and certainly to be able to play games without having a tantrum but equally, at 5 this isn't always easy. I also think that some things are naturally well shared - bikes being a classic example- and it's not helpful if other parents put pressure on your child in this respect.

From your other posts about these somewhat uncomfortable daily visits to the park, I really wonder whether your ds would benefit from just being at home or doing family things at the weekend. He doesn't need a packed social calendar right now.

if you can't have a tantrum, hissy fit, or just let rip when you don't like stuff when you are five when can you?. my ds found playdates overwhelming so i stopped doing them. it was too stressful. i found it better to have playdates at the swing park so mums could have a natter and the kids could run around and play together if they wanted. there was something about being cooped up in someone else's house that just didn't work for him.
he's fine now he's a bit older.

If he is behaving well in school then it does almost rule out any serious underlying problems which is good, you need to have simple rules that are enforced when you are having other children round, such as put away anything precious and all other toys are there for sharing. Use an egg timer (you can buy various timed ones) so he can visualise when he can have that toy back. I really wouldn't worry that he didnt want to share his bike, 9/10 other kids wouldn't have wanted to and there is no reason why they should. Maybe if he wasn't on it at the time (eg. on a swing) but don't stress about that bit. Tantrums tend to be frustration because no-one understands what I am trying to say, make sure that he knows that you DO understand why he doesn't want to do something. Maybe you need to find kids who share the same interests as him, rather than just anyone who is avavilable or has a mother that you get on with. (I have no idea whether you do this or not, not judging) I know that my own DC's would struggle having other kids round who wanted to do different things to them. Some kids like making things, some like role playing and some like construction toys.

Absolutely agree a 5 year old should be deciding who he plays with rather than it being mum's friend's child, as a chosen playmate is much more likely to be one he plays well with! I haven't chosen my kids friends for them after the age of 3 (nor do mums stay with their children after the age of 3-4 where we live). Obviously sometimes I want to see a friend who has kids their age and brings them - but that's not a play-date, that's mum's friend coming over and the kids can play together or separately (we have communal toys in the living room and the children are under no obligation to have friends I have invited up to their rooms, whereas when they invite friends over themselves I banish them upstairs or outside mostly :) ).

Oh, I just feel lost now (though I do find the replies helpful). It all seems so hard and a total minefield. To think I used to worry about his sleeping and such - all this stuff is much harder .

Seems like we are fucked because we don't have the right social group around us. I would be happy to let him invite any child around/arrange to meet in the park but there are only two children he ever plays with (according to him) in his class and this boy is one of them. They genuinely do get on usually but yesterday was a nightmare.

I also feel really inhibited from dealing with stuff while other parents are around but it is just not done in the group we are in to leave dc without parents. Also dh believes we should be seeing more of them, not less, because we should be making sure we cement the friendship. Just don't know what to do.

To make it worse (or it may be better ) we are moving at the end of the year so we will be starting from scratch again somewhere. Feels like we will never get this sorted.