to expect DH to come home from work, or at least get paid overtime?

[Jojoba1986]

It's a particularly bad example today but he's had to go 3.5 hours away for an all day thing which meant leaving the house at 6 & originally he should have been home by 7 'at the latest' but 'unfortunately things got a bit delayed this morning' & so he's basically not going to be home until 10!
I know these things happen occasionally but this is just an extreme example of a relatively normal day! He often tells me he'll be home by 6 so we can all have dinner together but then doesn't even leave the office until then which means he's home about 7. If he's got a lot of work then he'll stay until it's sorted, although he's beginning to get a little better at knowing when enough is enough after I got really annoyed at him on several occasions & told him that I had no intention of DS growing up not knowing if Daddy would be home in time to say goodnight! (Too harsh, I know!) We already put DS to bed later than other 1yos so he actually gets time with him in the evenings but is allowed to sleep late most mornings.
I don't know how much of it is him being too diligent & wanting to get everything right & how much of it is a lack of employee power to get the work done. He says that as a civil engineer it's expected that he'll work a little overtime but it's already in his contract to work half an hour longer than his previous job essentially as unpaid overtime! It just seems really wrong of his company to expect him to work long hours for free & not see his young child at all on days like today!

So who is being unreasonable? Me or them?! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

(I am aware that lots of people regularly work really long hours or away from home but that's not the lifestyle either of us want & when we got married I was under the impression that he had a relatively 9-5 type job & regular overtime wouldn't be an issue unless he worked his way up to a managerial role.)

There's good evidence that productivity rapidly decreases as you work more than 40 hours a week. Not only that but you hit a point at which you go into negative productivity... that means you do more work by doing fewer hours because you spend time redoing work.

There is a woman who took a CEO role at a company in London (I can't remember who... I'd look it up but the sofa is too comfortable) where there was a long hours culture. She made it known that she considered that anyone who was still in the office after 6pm was bad at their job or their manager was bad at their job. The long hours culture stopped within 2 weeks! The company is still thriving and is just as successful, which blows the long hours culture out of the water.

Your DH needs a new job.

It's hard to know from the OP whether:

• the DH would genuinely like to be home but it's unavoidable due to circumstances outside his control (too much workload, ill staff, not enough headcount, unexpected events)
• the DH wants to come home, the job doesn't need it, and he's incompetent
• the DH wants to come home but just places work priority higher than home
• the DH doesn't want to come home

Frankly, I don't think OP is being unreasonable to want her DH to come home. But I can't comment on whether it's unreasonable to expect him to be paid for it, or whether there's an element of choice on her DH's part, it's too much of an unknown.

Also hasn't mentioned the sector and what level of salary range. I know that in my first "professional" job out of uni, I'd have laughed if anyone stayed late, there just wasn't the culture. Having moved sectors slightly since then, the new grads are expected to stay late, even at their level, if they want to progress (there's still a bit of choice though). And certainly higher up the more demanding the job gets - you're paid on output, not working 38.5 hours a week or something like an hourly worker.

In other words, OP could be really naive or have the patience of a St, but without knowing more about her DH's outlook, his employer, sector and specific role and salary bracket, it's impossible to say how unreasonable (if at all) OP is being.

I think it depends what your job is nocake. The work I do is very deadline oriented - if I don't deliver the work to the client by the deadline, then there's no point in doing it at all.

I am slightly peeved that one of the reasons I was working until gone 7pm this evening was because my colleague had to catch a plane to Casablanca however :o

My work is deadline oriented but I don't let anyone give me a deadline that requires me to be in the office beyond 5 (or DD would be walking herself home from nursery).

Your DH needs a new job.

Lots of people "need" jobs with a more reasonable culture and set of expectations, but he's not terribly likely to find one.

Exactly what everyone else has said - no 'professional job' would have set hours or paid overtime, surely that's why you get a higher salary? Any hourly paid work is likely to much, much lower than a professional salary so be careful what you wish for.

I remember a relative of mine being chuffed when he was promoted to a senior grade on a better salary, he then couldn't believe he wouldn't get paid 'overtime'.

My DH is currently working overseas for 10 days, he once worked out his hourly rate for those sort of trips - about £3.50 .

No wonder we have a crappy work/life balance and a high divorce rate in the UK. All the research points to what nocake said. That long hours are seen to be hard working but are actually not. About 35-40 hours a week is about what gets you the most bang for your buck from your employees. Over 40 hours, people don't do what they would have done in 35 hours.

Employers should value family life more!
Happy employee = productive employee

I'm supposed to finish at 5 and I've left at after 7 every day this week. Times are hard, staffing is being cut and if I want to meet targets I stay till the work's done. These days if you want to stay in employment you have to do what's necessary.

If they paid your husband overtime the issue of your family life would still be there.

Can he go in an hour earlier and get back for 6? Allow one very late night working till 9.30 per week also maybe?

It is bad how the work life balance swings in favor of work and not home. In other countries the balance is better and more family orientated. But we are british.

Depends what your DH does - is it a salary job where he earns enough to support you and DS or do you have to work as well?

If my DH earned enough to support us I would be so happy - unfortunately he doesn't but we are a team. He gets home and if late, get to see him for about 10 minutes before I'm off shelf stacking until midnight (3 or 4 times a week). I do this so that the kids see atleast one of us during the day - he does not work weekends so we do have that family time together but weekdays can be fraught!

Really wish he did earn enough for me to stay at home always but sadly is not the case

I work in engineering & it's cut throat. Your DH can leave on time, but come the redundancies don't be surprised if he's in the frame.

I looked round the office tonight & the only ones pulling OT were perm staff, contractors get sent home as they hourly charge.

Make 1 night a week a 'early' to begin with & try making that family night

The balance may be better in some countries bluesky, but it's a lot worse in others!

OP, yanbu to think that the long hours are excessive but yabu to think that this is anything out of the ordinary. As others have said, if you and DH don't want the long hours, he may need to look for a lower paid job and you all adjust your lifestyle accordingly. In my organisation, only those on the lowest grades are entitled to claim paid overtime. The rest of us are just expected to suck it up.

Professional engineers are expected to work the hours required by the job, his peers will also be doing that. Unless he's staying at work to avoid coming home.

Just because it's now ' normal' to work long hours it doesn't make it right.

I am salaried in a managerial position, I average about 44/45 hrs a week. I'm in an industry that suffered quite badly when the recession first hit and after the inevitavble meeting with my boss on looking where to cut costs he suggested I could cut some staff hours and do more myself. I told him I wasn't prepared to do that. He said that most of his other managers work closer to 50 hrs a week. I explained to him that the reason I had moved to my current position was that I wanted a better work/life balance and not do those kind of hours anymore. Long story short I don't work any extra hours as a norm, though I do if necessary to cover any sickness etc when needed.

Can your dh discuss with his boss ways to reduce his hours? After all they can only say no can't they?

It is tough, but normal. Just rule out Mon to Fri for your own sanity.

It really depends on the role. I'm a teacher and contracted to work 35 hours a week - doesn't happen. It's a salaried job. I either stay til the work is done or bring it home. (work is never, ever finished though, it just goes on and on..!)

Interestingly (horribly), supply teachers here (Scotland) are paid for 5 hours a day - the hours they are in front of a class - but (in my local authority anyway) they are made to sign a contract stating they will complete all marking/tidying/admin etc. which they obviously can't do while kids are in the class... So effectively they HAVE to work unpaid. Awful situation just now.

DH has never been paid overtime. It's part of the contract to do what is required to get the job done. He does take time off in lieu when he has to work late by coming up to school in the mornings or goes for a run/bike ride at lunchtime for example.
I just found out I could be paid overtime because I am part time and can work more hours than contracted to as long as it doesn't go over the full timeo weekly hours. Not sure if this just my company but I've only ever taken lieu time instead.

I think it's dreadful how accepting people are of being exploited.

Knowing they can stay late makes people really inefficient. Before my dc I used to work about 65 hrs per week. Now I do about 45, and I get exactly the same amount done. I don't fuss or procrasrinate or do things that don't need doing.

If you are contracted for forty hours and do 70, they are understaffed or people are inefficient. It is also untrue that everyone does this. Almost all of the salaried people I know only do about 5 hours per week over.

OP, have a chat and ask him to tell you realistically when he'll be home, so that you know, and can plan. Maybe stay out later? Go to someone's house or out for early dinner once a week, rather than wait in maybe.

I work 12 hour days most days and some weekends even though most people just do their contractual 35 hours as my new boss expects it. I dont mind if month end as I expect that due to dead lines but I do object to being made to feel like I have to work at weekends, from home and now being asked to come in over Christmas (even though the company shuts for Christmas ) it doesn't help that I feel guilty that my teenagers as having to make their own teas and they are moaning I am moody so that's why i am handing my notice in on Monday.

Unfortunately, YABU. Most jobs only pay overtime to the lowest paid employees, and I am sure you wouldn't be happy with him quitting his job for a lower paid one. I am sure he'd love to see his DC more, so don't make him feel guilty about it. Alternatively, you can find a job yourself and he can try to find a less demanding one, so that you can both spend time with DS.

Yes YABU. When dh & I married he didn't have to go abroad now he does. He now alsogas a much longer working day & works at weekends. I've only ever been supportive of him as he trying to do his best for us a family. It's a partnership.

I'm with born2bemild and the female CEO above.

I'm in a professional friend and have always taken the view that if you can't do your job in your contracted hours there is a problem - either with you or with the job.

Apart from the occasional deadlinehellpressurepoint I've stuck to that. These days I can get time off in lieu of extra hours - and in fact work over more frequently because I know I can get them back. When I was on a one-way street (I.e. You could work over but not under) I was very strict with myself and got my work done in the tine.

Being massively organised is my coping strategy and vital toolparticulqrly when I have 50hrs of work to do in 37.5.

Oh FFs. Good thing I don't type from my phone while at work!

It it all well and good saying that you should be able to do your work within your contracted hours - however that is not possible when you (a) have to travel to other sites and have to incorporate about 5 hours a day travel on top of actually doing a day's work or if you have project based work which is inevitably peaks and troughs and you have to adhere to fixed deadlines.

I agree that just hours culture where people leave on time is seen as a weakness is not productive, but if the workload needs people to complete things by x date then that is inevitably going to cause long days.

I am very happy where I work now because there is a balance. However I used to work for an American company with a definite hours culture, if you left at 6 you were classed as a non-performer, or if you were female definitely on the 'mummy track' and no taken seriously. It was very pressured, but the telling this was that our American colleagues used to think that the Brits were complete slackers - they worked far more hours, didn't take their holiday (only had 10 days leave allowance anyway) and were working constantly. I think the US has a far more pressured work envioronment.