Who is more at fault?

[pamelat]

dh and I are continuing to have a tricky time.

I think we are both stressed out by life in general, work, finances, children (especially the behaviour of our 4 year old), even general chores are getting us down!

Ive felt like I may be depressed several times since having our children but GP has twice said not.

Anyway, without too much background ...

I'm not sure these things ever work with a stand alone example but the following has just happened, and I believe I'm not the one at fault and yet DH says I owe him an apology.

After a stressful swimming session with kids

First dd being awful in car and I tell dh that he needs to be more assertive/stern with her. He YELLS at her, which terrifies her. He rarely shouts and I didn't mean yell. Anyway she ends up sobbing but stupidly blows a raspberry cheekily at him and he slaps her :-(

We don't slap.

I soothe her and let it go.

We get home and his tone is off with me. I challenge this but sound like I'm nagging. In the past we've fallen out over nagging.

I go up with youngest and hear him speak to dd sharply in same tone. I over react (perhaps compensating for not reacting with slap?)

I go down and say he can't speak to her like that but know I was shouty. He turns and tells me to shut up. And I swear (I never swear!!)

This is awful as in front of the children

He turns and throws something on the flirt than was in hand, which has broken tiles. He grabs and pushes me before storming off upstairs for half an hour

I sit with the children who to be fair seem unbothered by the drama?!!

He comes down half an hour later but cross at me for nagging and swearing

We calmly talk but he doesn't change this view. I know we have issues to work out or walk away from, we want it to work, but I genuinely don't know how to work at things if our view are so different on this sort of stupid squabble

God re reading we sound childish.

How do you stop the resentment towards each other?

He grabbed you and pushed you? That's a serious line crossed in my book. Te other stuff, you need to discuss when you are rested and calm how you want to parent (maybe each read some books and compare notes ), but him being physical with you is totally unacceptable.

This is not a squabble. This is a full blown fight.
Imo you are both wrong.
Not sure if this can be resolved.
You shouldn't be telling him how to parent in front of the kids, then jumping because he is too harsh (although I would jump in if dh hit dd, but I wouldn't tell him to be harder in front of her).
He should not be throwing, pushing etc.
There is too much to list it all.
Perhaps some counselling?

He hit your child and he grabbed and pushed you. He has crossed a massive line IMO. What if the tile had hit you? He could have seriously hurt you.

It does sound like there's a lot of stress going on, but that's never an excuse for violence.

This doesn't happen regularly

He slapped her leg which in our "calm" discussion he says is different t hitting

He's normally a very good dad, and normally I'm ok and don't swear etc. Only one other row ever has been in front of them, a year or so back.

I think his stress at work is causing tension, which means he drinking every night, which means he's tired and irritable the next day.

I think dd has picked up on tensions, before thus squabble, and aligned herself with me. I never wanted this divide but think it must be why she's so bad with him.

I'll work on that :-(

What a sad state to be in. He's a nice guy and I'm ok and the kids are fab, but trying!! Other people seem to cope much better

I think my behaviour did push him to pushing/throwing

I know that's not an excuse but a reason ...

So are you ok with him hitting your DD?

Something simelar happened in my house last week. Not in front of the children and no child was slapped, but the rest is simelar. My dh got thrown out and he's only been back for clothes so far, a week later.

I think the stuff that happened before the pushing was both of you in the wrong, but him more so for slapping your child. After he gets physical with you it crosses a line IMO and it overrides whatever else went on before that. It means it's time out and time for a big reevaluation.

I think dh and I will be ok, but not without lots of talking. I feel that when stuff like this happens you really need to take a step back, because the alternative is just carrying on as normal, and that's good for no one.

He slaps your daughter and pushes and grabs you but thinks you should be apologising? And you think this is a childish squabble? Has he been violent to either of you before?

TBH, I don't know where to start, but for the sake of you, your DH and your DCs, you really need to sort this out, either by counselling, or time apart if possible.

Not ok with him slapping her and I know he's disappointed in himself about it.

She is being awful but she's 4 and just started school etc. I think she's just tired. Anyway her behaviour has been awful with me too at times but I don't slap. He's never slapped her before either. I think it's surprised him but then the anger at me came after ...

He has pushed/shoved etc before but more thrown things. He's never hit me.

I'm not scared of him or anything like that. I think he's just at breaking point but I feel similar really.

We both work, both have stresses, both take responsibility for chores.
I do more childcare but that's the flexibility of my job and being a
mum.

After this fight and once calm, I suggested he leave and he got upset. To be fair I'm not sure how he'd cope right now with the separation from the children so don't want to push.

I know I am criticising and nagging which is what's pushed him today. I don't mean to. I just have my own frustrations. I guess we are each taking our frustrations out on one another, me nagging and him more physically.

I don't know. I will talk more tonight to him.

We do get time out. Online a lot of suggestions are time out. Yesterday he went on a solo bike ride. Today I went for a sauna after the disastrous swim session.

Anyway .....

He says I drive him to breaking point, that's why the occasional flip out happens. I think he needs to address his anger and me my nagging/frustrations/general mood.

Who is more at fault?

This question is not helpful. This isn't about winning or point scoring.

You have some issues to work through and I think some counselling might be a good idea. The downtime you are doing sounds good to.

you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and realise that your DD is the child! You two are the grown ups and need to start acting like grown ups.

You are there to set an example!

In a way, by 'soothing' your child after she had been slapped, you were undermining your husband's discipline. It might have been better if you'd kept quiet or said something, "Well, you were rude by blowing a raspberry at Daddy."

You have told us that your husband was stressed at work so you ought to give him some leeway. Just have a quiet talk with him, saying that you understand how stressed he his and how he can't help himself sometimes but you would prefer it if he didn't slap your child.

Arguing about discipline in front of the children is also undermining regardless of who starts it and what is said.

You're all under stress.
You've had a terrible swimming session
You tell OH he needs to be stern/assertive with dd.
He shouts at DD
You undermine him.
DD is the cheeky deliberately to him.
He slaps dd on the leg.
You undermine OH again. And then nag him about how he shouldn't have done what he did. He tells you to shut up. Which you then swear at him.
And he looses it.

Tbh (ignoring the slapping of dd) do you blame him? You tell him to do something, then tell him he did it wrong. OH was probably feeling bad enough about slapping dd and was most likely on the defensive because he was already beating himself up about it, and didn't need his face rubbed in it.

I think what you need to do is sit down and discuss the behaviours of both if you.

Then discuss your parenting styles, and you both need to agree without blame being thrown around.

Do you want to sort it out? If so, you could try therapy or relate. Maybe take some off work and spend some time together without DD. sometimes things can be blown up like this and come to a head. Ask friends or family to help with babysitting while you work on yourselves and your relationship.

Can you also spend some money on help around the house?

It seems to be lack of time and chores that can push these things over the edge so take some time off from drudgery.

Going on your last post OP, I think you need to get a babysitter and go and do something with OH that does revolve around DCs. You you have any relatives who could have them over night? So you and oh can just veg with a dvd?

Your children will NOT be unbothered by this

Sounds shit all round all all parts. Life isn't a 'wrong' competition

Totally

There was a half an hour gap between slap of ddand our row.

I want to focus on her behaviour but accept needs to be a private conversation between dh and I. I was wrong. I don't condone th slapping as that's just his frustrations on her

I can see why the row escalated, definately

I just don't think I'm mainly as fault, as childish as I know and have said that sounds.

Once he calmed down and came down I expected an apology, I would Ben also have apologised.

Now I'm calm it does sound childish. It's just the principle.

Yes he's stressed at work but so am I. We probably need some time without the children around really, that isnt work

I'm not excusing his behaviour (no judging here) but I find DH and I go into meltdown from time to time, usually exacerbated by lack of sleep AND money worries. Those two are always a factor. We don't always act like adults at these times i have a bitchy mouth and I think that's more common than a lot of people would want to admit

It sounds like you need to give it a bit of space and then have a calm talk/debrief about how it could have been handled better and come up with a joint plan on how to handle DD and situations when you are frustrated with each other. Forewarned is forarmed.

I would Say you instigated it

Ie you told him to be stern and hard on her
Ten when he was to belittled him in front of her
He probably feels like you set him up to fail
You should have discussed acceptable punishments etc back then

But he went too far
Being physical with the two of you

So even though his reaction was ridiculous and ott, I would say ou were initially at fault for telling him how to parent then telling him off for doing what you said in front of dd.
Your dd will probably play on this now

i dont think the slap is a big deal, when kids are being extra annoying, there is nothing wrong with a short slap to bring them to their senses imo

you sound a bit like you are undermining his discipling the kids. what gives you the right to go downstairs and tell him he is doing it wrong. why is his way wrong and yours is right?

you have some quite large issues to sort out, and none are to do with parenting imo

I'd "undermine" my DH if he slapped our 4 year old in anger.

That's not discipline, it's just violence.

Just like throwing things and pushing your wife around is violence.

Stress at work doesn't mean you get to come home and physically bully your family.

'He has pushed/shoved before but more thrown things. He has never hit me '

Sorry, regardless of who is getting on whose nerves, this is a HUGE red flag. If he has pushed you and shoved you before and has done it again, that's indicative of an abusive personality.

Please be very careful and seriously consider taking some time out (can he go and stay with family or friends for a while?) while you sort this out.

This is in no way normal or healthy and no matter how much you think you nagged or undermined him, it's NO EXCUSE for him shoving you.

There is NO EXCUSE for him getting physical. EVER.

Being violent (hitting your dd, pushing you, throwing things and damaging property) is much worse than shouting and swearing.

I don't think you can be blamed for nagging. I think nagging is a negative term solely attached to women which just means 'asking someone to do something'. By calling it nagging the myth that women should put up and shut up with regards to carrying the majority of chores and childcare.

You did not drive your partner to do violent, nor did your kids. He chose to be violent. He is responsible for his actions.

None of that's to say I think shouting and swearing in front of your kids is ideal, it clearly isn't. But I think you know that.

We've agreed not to hit our kids, if dp did I would go ballistic.

Be violent.