to take my DS out of school

[onceortwice]

It's not really AIBU at all, but I need advice. I've tried the SN boards, but there just isn't much traffic over there.

DS is 4. He has HFA (High functioning autism... Massive IQ. zero social skills).

He is hating school. Last two days have been a nightmare, with him kicking and screaming. I know in my heart he's not going to 'get' it. He's not going to somehow 'get' the social interactions.

I have agreed to keep him in until half term, but I am the one who drops off a screaming child and picks up a patently unhappy one.

he says the class is too busy and too noisy (which it probably is). There are 30 kids and he won't get his draft statement until mid October.

Advice please? No prep school will touch him, so that's not an option.

(and, can I just thank the lovely, amazing lady who talked to me this morning, actually making an effort to come and talk when I was upset... I hope you know how much that was appreciated and I think you will, over time, become a really good friend)

I'm surrounded by home schooled children here. All mine went/go to the local school but home school is very popular.
Being in a class of 30 and stressed isn't going to help his social skills.
I'd home school and enroll him in other activities that will be social, swim club, cubs, sunday school, gymnastics, and I'm sure there are loads more if you are in a place big enough for classes of 30 children at the local school.

My DD is 14 and has Aspergers, she really struggled at school and my now ex and I made the decision to take her out and HE half way through year 4. She had numerous problems and felt lonely and isolated. We knew she was miserable but didn't realise just how bad she really felt until she found out she didn't have to go back. Within days it was like a huge weight had been lifted off her shoulders and gradually emerged this happy little person who has become more and more confident as time has passed. Other than maths (which I insist she does) I am very relaxed in her learning and she decides much of what we do. You couldn't compare her to a child of similar age that goes to school as she probably hasn't learnt the same things as them but she is bright and clever, she reads the news every day and takes notice of what is going on in the world. If she wants more info on something she has seen we look it up and then that leads on to finding out about other things. While school works for lots of kids, its not for everyone. Trust your gut and take him out of school, give Home Education a try, he is very young and you will always have the option of him attending school when he's a bit older if that's what you want.

dozer is that true?

I have been told that I cannot defer his place (but surely he would get the choice of schools once he has a statement) and they won't consider shorter days. I would very much like him to have a later start time and an earlier finish, but then I don't feel I can tell them what to do. And, to be fair, his teacher does appear to be nice

numbertaker - that is how I feel about it at the mo. DS is too wound up to even consider what social niceties he ought to be learning. It was why I wanted to send him to school, but it's just not happening and I don't think it's going to get back on track.

Take him out now!!!
As a home educator I know lots of HFA children who thrive at home. The over-riding thing I hear parents say is 'I wish I'd done it sooner'.
I know my friend won't mind me saying this, her little boy (HFA) lasted 1/2 a term and she says it was four weeks too long as the scars went deeper. The social side of home ed hasn't always been easy he spent the first 6 months of home ed meetings under a chair and the second 6 on her on her knee. But bit by bit he came out found kids he gelled with and joined in. At 7 he is one of the loveliest most sociable (he prefers small groups or one-to-one, but I bet if you ask most adults they do to) children you can meet.
Go over to the home ed board and you will find lots of support/links that will help.

Take him out and home educate...Go onto the home ed threads here and chat to people. He is so young and sounds unhappy.

We have talked today (DS and me) and he is going to go for one more week.

He cannot verbalise why he dislikes it (only it is too noisy). I have written to his teacher to ask for a meeting. He is like a different child this morning. Still in bed and playing a maths puzzle on his iPAD.

I feel torn because so many people say to me 'but he HAS to go to school' but he doesn't have to, does he?

FWIW, I do agree with school. My DD (3) goes as do my DSDs. I wouldn't have considered HE as an option. It's more that it's becoming evident that school and my DS are a round hole and a square peg and me pushing it is just going to lead to a very damaged peg

THe reason for one more week is that he did enjoy the first few days and we have agreed he needs to have more 'bad' days than 'good' before we write it off.

Once the bad days out number the good, then I will look at taking him out, or pushing a much reduced timetable.

I feel so pulled. I want to listen to my DS, but on the other, I don't want him to feel he can tell me what's happening. I mean, he is still 4. If it was up to him, he'd live on pickled onion monster munch and watch scooby doo till midnight. and I don't let him do that....

It isn't a question of home ed good, school bad. I have one in school, one at home - it is what suits each one. Some kids are just not compatible with school.

Tiredness may be playing a part. I think many kids struggle the second week.

If the idea of home ed has just come to you, spend a week reading everything you can, there are national support lists for home educators with kids with special needs. Contact your local home ed group and find out what is available to reassure yourself that social support is out there.

I have two with autism currently in school. They both started school late and very part time and neither went full time until the latest possible opportunity, oh and they both had statements in place before they set foot in an educational setting.
I think the thing to look at is their social and emotional maturity and a HFA child won't be at a level to cope until much later than an NT child.
Ds is now at an independent specialist school with a year group of 6 because that's what he needs and what he can cope with right now. In mainstream primary he was in a class of 14 but it wasn't our local school we travelled to get the small numbers.
Dd is at a lovely inclusive mainstream primary, again we travel to a school that has lots of children with additional needs because they are prepared to be flexible and their pastoral care is outstanding, academically they are pretty good too but my priority is inclusion and pastoral care tbh.
It may be that when a statement is in place the extra support for ds will be enough for him to be happy there, it may be that other options need to be looked at or it may be that home ed is the best option in the short or longterm. (I will most likely home ed dd from y7 tbh). But he's only 4 and he doesn't need to be there now so follow your heart and withdraw him oh and take it from me you are the expert in what your child needs so start believing that right now.

Reading this thread with sympathy and concern as we are just starting down this route with DS2, AS.

He has recently been diagnosed; they won't say how severely autistic he is except that he is not severe, and have advised trying mainstream to start. We're currently working with the school on a phased induction plan; his team say we can't really know what his needs will be until
We've had a shot at it as we need first to see how he reacts. I'm very nervous about how he's going to deal with it, as he really doesn't like noise, groups of people etc and tends to shut off/hide under table, so I am worried that he will be unable to learn. But DH feels stronglybwenshould give it a go first rather than assuming it won't work.

Really feel for you. Hope it all works out.

YANBU - definitely go chat on the Home Ed boards if you're seriously considering it. There are lots of wonderfully knowledgeable people posting there.

Forgot to say its nursery (attached to mainstream school where
my other DCs are) rather than reception so I guess yet are willing to be more flexible. With a view to him then going to that school. We have not yet got statements etc.

They are not yet are - damn autocorrect.

If you can, I think it would be worth pushing for a phased induction and taking it at your DS pace. My school said this is what they advised/have seen work in past for AS kids - they said the bigger picture was more important than trying to fit him into their schedule when he wasn't ready, that hopefully he will then be happier at school. Sounds like this could be best for your DS. Good luck.

Don't forget OP, even kids with HFA can have a hard time starting school. I really think you should give it a bit longer and have a few days off here and there if it all gets too much

I really know what you mean about the 'but he HAS to go to school' attitude.

Yes, we can spend 12 years getting him accustomed to classrooms, assembly, circle time (my favourite), teachers, kids who are not always kind, uniforms, timetables. Often they learn to conform because they HAVE to.

Then he spends the next 60 years thrust into society which, if we're honest, is really quite different. They have not necessarily learnt to apply social skills because they WANT to and understand the reasons for it.

I think you can prepare children to be members of society and achieve some academic success along the way in many different ways.

When my ds was still in school, all the professionals involved insisted that mainstream school was the right place for him, he'd be fine, didn't need much support yadda yadda. Over time (without any support, though much promised) the situation got progressively worse and he became frustrated and aggressive and desperately unhappy. It didn't take long for the bullying to start because it was so amusing for other kids to wind him up so he'd provide and entertaining floor show. We eventually pulled him out to home ed at the beginning of Y5 with fears for his mental health, which his GP supported.

Since then, I've had cause to speak with several of those professionals who knew him during his school days and most of them have said (off record) that mainstream school is absolutely the wrong environment for children with HFA. In effect, these people will push the party line because they're told to, not because it's what they believe.

My son is now 13 and has thrived since coming out of school. As someone up list said, I'm one of those many parents whose only regret about home ed is that I didn't do it sooner. Please don't worry about socialisation - your son needs to develop at a pace he can handle and he may never manage it in a noisy class full of 30 children and a dozen or more things going on, all the sensory stuff, all the confusion. At home you can find his comfort zone and start to work on leading him out of it. It will take time but you may find it's more effective than battling a system that will most likely never meet his needs. My son never had friends while he was at school but he does now, and far more social opportunities because he's calm enough to cope in a range of environments and be accepted in them. That would never have happened had he stayed where he was as he was constantly far too stressed to learn anything, social or academic.

Come across to the home ed boards, join the MN FB home eds group, and find out more.

I think anyone who has made this decision needs to expect professional pressure.

We considered HEing ds4 and mentioned it to the regional Ed Psych who was leading an Earlybird course for ds3; she said she would not allow any input from her team into his needs unless we sent him to school, as keeping him at home was against his best interests and always is for a child: in fact, ds4 was at nursery 5 afternoons a week and with a CM two mornings a week so ahrdly restricted socially!

I did buckle and send him, and am waiting for the inevitable crash.

A slightly different point of view to most I think, but personally I think it's to early to tell after only a few days in school. It's clear your ds needs some extra support in the school environment and hopefully the school will quickly pick this up and organise it. Personally I would be arranging meetings with the head and class teacher and try and get him some 1:1 support, a quiet zone for him and maybe arrange for him to go part time for the first term. Our local primary school has large class sizes of 30 but also has excellent facilities for special needs children which is linked to the local special needs school. Nothing wrong with he at all, but I think you all have to give it a fair chance first. Also have you considered your local special needs school? Some are excellent.

if its the arrival and leaving thats causing an an issue (one of mine had this problem) is there a different entrance he could use or could he arrive 10/15 mins later and leave 10.15 mins earlyer to avoid the bustle of other kids and parents. it worked a treat for mine. chill out zones are also helpfull.

remember hes your child so you are able to either just ask or actually tell (im very fond of just telling i.e this will be happening in the future and this is why)

Peachy makes a very valid point about access to local authority services once you decide to home educate. Obviously it varies regionally but where I live there is NO support at all for home educated children with autism, and I have this in writing from several sources. I have been advised that this is illegal and discriminatory but knowing how my LA operates (and the NHS aren't free from blame, either) I know I'd have a heck of a battle on my hands to pursue it.

My personal experience has been that any support offered in the past has been inadequate, irrelevant and not geared to my son's needs but to some generic 'autistic boy' whose profile he didn't match. I believe he's done better without the interference of professionals who claimed to understand his needs and want to support them, but who in practice didn't and couldn't. OP, it's worth considering whether you want your son to be 'in the system' or out of it - if you decide to home educate there's a considerable chance that he won't have access to SN support at all, depending on policies where you live.

My ds really struggled when he was at maintream school in a class of 30. His teaching assistant set up a workstation for him in the corner of the room hoping it would be a little more quiet for him away from the other children, but it did'nt work, there was still the noise issue so they set up a matrix room for him and a couple of other children who also had noise issue's and this seemed to help as he was'nt distracted, as did'nt get as stressed. I think my son use to get upset while going to school was because he knew he was going to have to sit in a noisy classroom and could'nt get away from it. My ds left mainstream school at the end of year 4 as we had to think about whether he could cope in our local secondary school which has 1,400 children. He now goes to SN school and is in year 8 and really enjoys it as the class size's are smaller, his only has 8 children in it.

Streakybacon

Since then, I've had cause to speak with several of those professionals who knew him during his school days and most of them have said (off record) that mainstream school is absolutely the wrong environment for children with HFA. In effect, these people will push the party line because they're told to, not because it's what they believe.

That sums it up for me. None of the prep schools will take him. They don't think MS is the right environment. The state school has to say it's OK. They have to. They are not allowed not to.

Yet, I don't think for a second they would care a jot if I removed my DS from their care.

I've never thought about it that clearly. It's not right for him. I know that, HE is not something I've just stumbled across, I have been thinking it for nearly 2 years. I believe I just made a decision.

I think you seem to know in your heart what you want to do. I would just say to stick to letting him go for one more week so you both feel you've given it a proper chance. And talk to the school first to see if there is anything they could do e.g. Going in later, leaving 5 minutes early. But it may simply be that this school is not the right environment for your child.