Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel uneasy about DS and nursery?

34 replies

SomebodySaveMe · 13/09/2012 17:07

I probably am but something feels off. DS is at the nursery where I work. We have had a new person start who is going to work towards qualifications and is still waiting for a clear CRB check to come back so isn't allowed to toilet children etc.

I came back from my lunch and took DS to toilet. He was standing up and I told him to hold his willy so it didn't go everywhere. He replied 'you hold it mummy like blah blah does'
Blah blah being the new lady. I spoke to my manager who spoke to blah blah who says that she hasn't toiletry any child and we just need to watch for anything else DS might say and take it from there. She says that 90% of what kids say is the truth but on this instant DS may have gotten confused.

I feel very uneasy. It seems like a strange thing for a 3.6 year old to come out with. His language is about a year ahead of his age so it's not usual for him to get confused and he was adamant that this had happened.

Even if she had toileted him when she wasn't supposed to then why would she hold his willy?

Am I being PFB or is this a bit odd?

OP posts:
neverquitesure · 13/09/2012 17:15

Seems a bit odd to me. Hundreds of perfectly reasonable explanations, but I don't think YABU or PFB.

When you say you work at the nursery I am presuming you are in the same room as your DS and this new member of staff. Obviously you can't watch her all the time but I think it would be prudent to keep an eye out for other odd behaviour. Plus, after the chat with your manager she presumably now knows that it is very inappropriate and that it will be noticed if she does it again.

Probably nothing, but you are right to be aware.

scentednappyhag · 13/09/2012 17:19

Confused YADNBU to be concerned. I don't know what I'd do in your position though, but wanted to reassure you weren't being pfb.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange · 13/09/2012 17:22

YANBU to be concerned.

Just to reassure you, it is a vanishingly rare thing for an adult woman to sexually abuse a pre-pubescent child.

Flojo1979 · 13/09/2012 17:23

Maybe she took him and helped him and now feels somewhat embarrassed that your ds has been talking about her touching his willy so her knee jerk reaction was to lie.
I think I'd panic if I got accusing of touching boys willys too!
I do think its highly unlikely to be anything sinister but then I tend be a trusting person.
My dd (3.9) speaks well, but she can't half lie too! She can easily be lead to say whatever u want to hear.
If u work there then it makes it much easier to keep vigilant so I wouldn't worry.
Tho I thought the recommendation (following that horrendous nursery worker abusing kids in bathroom) was that there should be 2 members of staff when toileting?

Original poster
SomebodySaveMe · 13/09/2012 17:34

It's only a small community nursery with 28 kids a day so I'm not sure we have the staff to send 2 for one child going for a wee. Will ask manager though as that is something I remember reading about.

I'm pretty sure DS has gotten confused somewhere along the way but I can't shake the uneasy feeling. I also don't know how to broach it with DS that it's not ideal for other people to be touching him there for whatever reason.

OP posts:
Alliwantisaroomsomewhere · 13/09/2012 17:46

A little boy I used to childmind, was being potty trained while with me. When he sat down, his penis pointed out over the rim of the toilet lid. I had to sort of push it or hold it down so the urine went into the toilet bowl otherwise he would have wet everything in his path.

I would be mortified if anyone thought anything untoward about what I was doing.

So I don't know if YABU or not.

Arion · 13/09/2012 17:57

Perfectly fair Alliwant, the issue with this, is, even if that is what she was doing, she shouldn't have been in that situation until her crb check was back.

Original poster
SomebodySaveMe · 13/09/2012 18:56

It's just the way DS came out with it. I think it's shocked me and made me realise that it could happen.
I don't want to overreact and accuse someone who is in all probability innocent of something but at the same time there's a niggle in the back of my mind that it could be true and I haven't done enough.

OP posts:
Otheregos · 13/09/2012 19:04

She should not even be in the job with children until her crb comes back, how on earth would you explain to parents if it came back with something... The nursery owners are irresponsible for allowing her to start work before she's got a clear crb

MrsKeithRichards · 13/09/2012 19:07

She can be in the job but shouldn't be one to one.

Otheregos · 13/09/2012 19:25

I can't believe that.. So if the crb came back and she was a convicted child abuser that would be ok as she hadn't had one to one contact?!! IMO no one should be allowed to start work with vulnerable adults or children until their crb has come back clear, they should be offered the job subject to a clear crb and then start once it's all sorted.

griphook · 13/09/2012 19:33

Otheregos unfortunalty that is the system but your right it's wrong. I worked in one job for 6 months before my crb came though. I could have been anyone.

Another nursery I left didn't bother to do crb checks on relief staff and stated that as they would never be alone with children then it was acceptable. Ofsted seemed to think this was fine aswell.

Otheregos · 13/09/2012 19:40

Griphook I am shocked by that! I think that is a Huge flaw to the system! Where I work no one can start in their post until a clear crb (nhs) for once is doing something right

ihearsounds · 13/09/2012 19:42

It's not rare for people to work with children whilst awaiting for crb checks. I was in the same situation when I started with my current employer, and because of problems at their end, took crb nearly 3 months to come back. In the meantime, I was allowed to work, just wasn't allowed to be on my own. I think this is ridiculous, and makes a mockery of the system that is supposed to help protect vulnerable people. If she took him, she should not have lied, she should have confessed and apologized.

Because of CP and safe guarding children, we have to work in pairs when in toilets. It's to help ensure that the pupil remains safe, and also helps to give us some protection against false allegations. We also have to go in different pairs. It can be challenging especially at lunch times when we have activities, 35 students and 6 members of staff.

WilsonFrickett · 13/09/2012 19:45

I am absolutely Shock that people can start jobs with children before their CRB comes through. That actually horrifies me.

moogster1a · 13/09/2012 19:48

As a pp says, I'm currently toilet training a mindee and have to push his willy downwards so wee doesn't go all over the floor/ trousers/ more importantly me! Believe me, there is nothing untoward or sexual about helping a 2 year old to wee.
however,
Whether she has one to one care of lo's or helps them on the loo she should have a CRB cleared before working in close contact with children ( which she is doing in a nursery).
So, I wouldn't worry about the willy touching, no doubt she helped toilet him and lied to avoid getting herself and manager in trouble. But, I would want to know when the CRB is coming through.

griphook · 13/09/2012 19:51

Otheregos, it's disgusting, it's the main reason why I left as I didn't feel I could keep the children safe. Jobs were advertised in local shops, gum tree etc, no qualifications needed as relief staff, do lots of applicants.

I honestly felt that the children were at risk as all it took was for one person with the wrong intent to apply and soon the nursery could become a target iykwim.

The problem was the company took advantage of a small loop hole there to help people to work whole waiting for crb's and literally decided their own Interperation.

griphook · 13/09/2012 19:56

Also just to add, imagine you are working in a room of 8 children, do 2 staff needed, and you have an un cleared person working with you, and a child wets themselves,

You can't take the child to toilet as you leave the un crb person with the rest of the children.

You can't get them to take the child to the bathroom,

You either change the child in the room ( leaving the child with no privacy as 7 other dc's look on)

Or you wait until someone else can help and hope that they are in a room
With other crb cleared people.

It causes a lot of stress for the staff.

Otheregos · 13/09/2012 20:00

I am horrified by this and I shall be asking my sons nursery about their crb policy/checks next week! Griphook no wonder you left its insane, crbs are there to protect yet there is a great big loop hole for people to get round its just to save some money but surely the risks of employing a convicted abuser out ways the cost of a crb?!iyswim

Flojo1979 · 13/09/2012 20:00

Everyone seems to be putting a lot of weight on crb's but let's face it, most of them just haven't be caught yet.

Everythingsgoingtitsup · 13/09/2012 20:06

I agree with flojo. CRBs only tell you who has been caught already.

griphook · 13/09/2012 20:06

It's all about saving money.

Also the wording is another loop hole. The term cleared crb means nothing really you can still work with children if you have a criminal record. There are about three things that bar you from working with children, the rest is down to the discretion of the nursery.

So you say oh do your staff have crb's. ''yep' says the manager.

I'm sure they all do have a crb doesn't mean they do not have a criminal record.

I had someone's crb come back with gbh, I consulted the company lawyers and I was able to sack him as he had declared he had no criminal record, rather than sack him because he had a criminal record.

griphook · 13/09/2012 20:09

That's also true crb's don't really hold any weight as staff are not under any obligation to tell you if they have committed an offence unbetween crb renewals.

It just gets to me that people twist the system to save money

pigletmania · 13/09/2012 21:34

About the holding willy issue it could be that she was showing him How to aim, or if he was sitting down moving it into the bowl so the wee does not go everywhere. Anyway she should not be ding toileting until her crb check comes through.

Viviennemary · 13/09/2012 21:39

I don't think YABU to be concerned. And in any case I thought the CRB check would have to come back before that person could work with children. Maybe the nursery knows she did take him to the toilet but that would mean they had broken the rules about the CRB checks. As others have said there's probably nothing in it but I would be concerned about your son saying it if it didn't happen. Why would he.