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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Have inadvertently sold a fake item and now buyer is threatening me with police

383 replies

HelpMeSoWorried · 11/09/2012 13:54

Have namechanged as I am so embarassed. And also sorry to post in here, maybe should have posted in legal, but I know there is a lot of traffic here.

I was given a Mulberry bag as a christmas present a couple of years ago and tbh I never liked it much anyway and never used it (apologies to any handbag fans). As far as I knew it was genuine and had all tags with it etc.

I had no idea what it was worth but recently did a bit of research and they are about £700 new I think. So I decided to get rid and put it on gumtree. I was inundated with enquiries and sold it to a lady last week. She was really happy with it and I got £350 for it.

She has texted me today claiming it is fake and saying she wants me to pay her back and she will return the bag if I give her my address. She doesn't know where I live as I met her in town(at her request!) but she has my name, and obviously my number.

I am very upset and shocked as I would never have sold it if I thought it was not real, I would have maybe just given it away or something. Its completely against my principles, I am an honest person :( I am sat here crying now as I am so scared.

I really needed the money, I don't want the bag back and I don't want to return the money as as far as I am concerned I sold it in good faith and she happily chose to buy it. I am not a criminal, or a scam artist, but she is threatening to report me to the police. :(

can anyone help?

OP posts:
mayorquimby · 11/09/2012 15:52

"Sure mayor, that's true - but I wonder what would happen if the OP brought evidence in the small claims court that said the serial number was different (a photo) - I think even evidence that this is a common-ish scam would be enough."

Well surely then that would mean that the bag sold was a genuine, and as such there's be no problem and the other woman is a scammer? or am I missing what you're saying?

TheCraicDealer · 11/09/2012 15:56

One thing to bear in mind though- my mum went to H Samuels to ask about getting a replacement battery fitted in her fake Rolex watch., She was laughing and saying "Oh the battery cost more than the watch" etc. and the girl in the shop said that if she brought it in she would be obliged to take it out of my mum's possession as it was counterfeit.

SO, if you do go through with the Mulberry Shop plan, you could find yourself in a position where they say it's fake, take it off you (I'm sure Mulberry would do this, same with any luxury brand) and you have to pay back the other woman out of your own pocket without being able to mitigate your loss by selling the bag again as a "replica".

(My own bags came with the care/reg card, dust bag, but no leather cleaner and they were bought from Mulberry direct)

LaurieFairyCake · 11/09/2012 15:57

mayor - That's what I mean - once the bag has been taken away by the buyer then anything could happen, or claim to be happening.

Even the OP if she was a scammer could wander into a Mulberry shop, take photos of a bag, post the photos, sell a fake (numpty buyer not really checking the photos match the real thing). Not really provable after as then the buyer could be the scammer by producing a fake.

I think once the bag has been taken away then the transaction is complete as ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN AFTER.

I'm sure that's why the onus (caveat emptor) is on the buyer to check before parting with money - that's what sensible adults do.

ErikNorseman · 11/09/2012 15:59

I suppose you could offer her a partial refund. given that fake mulberrys seem to go for £200, you could offer her £75 as a goodwill gesture, she has a possibly fake, possibly real bag for a reasonable price, and you still have money in your pocket.

WhatYouLookingAt · 11/09/2012 16:00

A jeweller cannot take your watch if they beleive it to be fake. It's nothing to do with them, and would be an easy way for dodgy jewellers to steal watches!

OsmiornicaGold · 11/09/2012 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mayorquimby · 11/09/2012 16:09

Yes but Caveat Emptor is a long standing legal principle which essentially means "read the small print.", it's not really an applicable argument in this scenario because IF the bag is a fake then it is the op who is being bound by the contents of the contract.

The reality with the fact that anything could happen after the initial transaction is completely correct. Legal action in the aftermath is going to be highly unlikely as the whole thing is fairly undocumented. I doubt there'd be enough evidence for any sort of criminal charge if the buyer goes to the police and as for a civil action it's probably more hassle than a lot of people will go to and risk incurring legal fees of their own or simply assume it would be pointless due to their own lack of familiarity with the law.
I simply posted about the potential legal reprecussions and liability because others were somehow trying to justify keeping the money even if the bag was fake on the grounds of "bought as seen/caveat emptor/you sold it in good faith etc." when those principles don't apply in the scenario presented in the op's description of what has occured.

If the op finds the serial# photos and contacts mulberry or finds out from her ex-p that the bag is a fake, then she is left with a moral decision only and not a legal one, not because she is protected by the law or is technically in the right, but only because the reality is the buyer has not afforded herself enough protection to realistically be succesfull in a claim against the op.
However my point stands IF the bag is a fake, then the OP is legally in the wrong and also any claims on her part as to her honesty or good faith would be simply lip-service because it is her principles of honesty would be up for sale at a price of £350.

TheCraicDealer · 11/09/2012 16:09

There's a difference to them suspecting and the customer admitting it, as my DM did. And H Samuels and other large companies would have a duty to their suppliers to remove items they know to be counterfeit out of circulation.

SuperScrimper · 11/09/2012 16:13

Come on! How many of you live in a world where your DH spends £700 on a present out of the blue, which you clearly hate as you never use it, and then doesn't bring up how much money he has wasted/ask if you want to swap it?!

If it was a scam the buyer would have insisted on coming to collect it so she knew the sellers address. Why would a scammer out herself in the position of only having the mobile number of the person she was 'scamming'.

LaurieFairyCake · 11/09/2012 16:13

Yes, I agree entirely - if it's fake, sold when she knew it was fake, then it's entirely a moral question.

And given that the seller believed it to be real, now that it's actually gone from her possession, then she doesn't have to accept it back as she can't verify now that it's the one she sold.

mayorquimby · 11/09/2012 16:14

I've heard of jewellers refusing to fix counterfeit etc. but I don't know how any private company would argue that they have the authority to seize a citizens possessions without a court order.

LaurieFairyCake · 11/09/2012 16:16

"Why would a scammer out herself in the position of only having the mobile number of the person she was 'scamming'".

Because the scammer is relying entirely on the OP being dopey enough to fall for it, it's how scams work Grin There's an Iphone one doing the rounds where someone comes and buys an Iphone and through sleight of hand swops it for a broken one.

LadyHarrietdeSpook · 11/09/2012 16:20

Craic That is true about Mulberry, even if they agreed to get involved, taking the bag off her...

LydiasMiletus · 11/09/2012 16:22

Op was response have you given her so far?

Original poster
HelpMeSoWorried · 11/09/2012 16:28

Right - I hope this has been sorted out now

Have been talking to the lady via text and she has agreed to meet me again, not till saturday though Hmm with the bag. I have managed to get my pics back although naively I didn't have a pic of the serial number Angry

But I am pretty positive I will be able to tell if it was mine, and TBH I just want an end to all this.

Thanks ever so much for the helpful comments :) Thanks

PS-does anyone want to buy a mulberry bag of dubious authenticity

OP posts:
AKissIsNotAContract · 11/09/2012 16:30

Can you post the pics on here? I'm sure some of us can tell you whether it's real or not.

mathanxiety · 11/09/2012 16:35

The serial number can be checked. However, she could give you a wrong serial number from a fake bag if you have to depend on her for a number.

It is very important to retrieve the photos and take the trouble to figure out what the number is, or if there is any record of the serial number in your possession you need to find it. Hopefully the serial number is in the photos you posted.

You also need to retrieve your original ad and check what you said about the item.

If the serial number wasn't in the photos and she still bought it, and didn't check the number was a Mulberry number before she bought it/ while she was examining it, then I think she bought it 'as seen' -- the term really means nothing legally if you include it in an ad, but in your case she examined it so can be assumed to have known what she was buying.

(It occurs to me that if the serial number wasn't in the photos and wasn't mentioned in the ad, there is a chance that she is a scammer who saw a clueless seller and pounced. Not including the serial number in your photos or mentioning the fact that there was one could have indicated that you knew nothing much about Mulberry bags and had no experience selling designer items. This is speculation and not something you can prove.)

mathanxiety · 11/09/2012 16:36

x-post there..

SkippyYourFriendEverTrue · 11/09/2012 16:42

tbh selling a fake Mulberry handbag on Gumtree is exactly the sort of thing a fraudster would do. Masses of fakes out there.

charlearose · 11/09/2012 16:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lashingsofbingeinghere · 11/09/2012 16:45

I sold an LV bag through ebay but rang the store I bought it from to check they had the record of the sale, so I could say on the listing that the shop would vouch that particular bag was genuine. I think there was a serial number involved but tis a few years ago.

I would take a guess at where the Mulberry was bought and ask the store if they have the record of the bag being bought in the name of your ex.

CirclesAndSquares · 11/09/2012 16:46

buyer beware

she bought it, you sold it, walk away

quoteunquote · 11/09/2012 17:00

OP, ask her to meet you at a police station and return her money if she turns up.

Bellyjaby · 11/09/2012 17:02

I was given a fake Mulberry a while ago. Thankfully the person who gave it to me never made out it was anything but. She was given it by a coworker who had bought it thinking it was genuine and was getting a bargain, then later found it was fake so just gave it away angrily.

Thing is, my mate has the same bag but genuine. My fake one is identical except it has the dodgy serial number. Neither of us could find any other difference at all.

I feel sorry for people who get caught like this. You have no reason to suspect its anything other than genuine, but get caught out when reselling in good faith. It really sucks.

SaraBellumHertz · 11/09/2012 17:05

Regardless of a civil claim if she contacts the police then they will likely treat it as a criminal matter under the 2006 Fraud Act, which (and I paraphrase) makes you guilty of an offence if you knowingly misrepresent a fact for gain.

The key here of course would be did the OP make the statement that the bag was genuine knowing that it was or might be untrue. A few pertinent questions about the OP's ex and their relationship would probably make a fairly strong case either way....

I have two mulberry bags (one from a mulberry store and one from HoF, neither of which have serial numbers/tags.

I can also get you a fake with a box, leather care card, dust bag and receipt.

It's a complicated business buying second hand designer goods

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