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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About school cover lessons

29 replies

newstarticus · 10/09/2012 18:51

DD's first full week back in year 10. Today 3 out of 5 classes were given by cover teachers as the class teachers were away. I get the impression they were more supervised than taught as the cover teachers were from different subjects.

I don't think the teachers were off sick as something is usually said when this is the case.

This issue was narking me last year and I'm inclined to say something now before the year gets too far in. Should I complain? Are there any standards schools have to adhere to around this?

First time in aibu so that must mean I'm a bit annoyed!

OP posts:
Flisspaps · 10/09/2012 18:57

No standards that I'm aware of. Just that cover teachers aren't usually paid for until the 3rd consecutive day of absence, so a cover teacher isn't usually brought in until then - before that it's cover supervisors giving work set by a teacher.

What do you want to achieve by complaining? Just thinking that it's unlikely to resolve anything (it won't bring the teachers back in!)

natwebb79 · 10/09/2012 18:58

As a secondary school teacher myself I think that sounds pretty bad form, especially when your daughter needs a good solid start to the GCSE courses. I would ask the Head why so many teachers are absent. If it is illness then that is just terrible luck but if they're out on courses I wouldn't be happy.

Original poster
newstarticus · 10/09/2012 19:05

Flisspaps, I suppose what I want to achieve is a reduction in avoidable cover lessons. As parents we were asked - quite rightly - not to take DCs out of school for holidays so I think they should do their best to have the right teacher there.

Totally agree about the GCSE start natwebb, I'll send a polite email to the head of year to see what's happening

OP posts:
juniper904 · 10/09/2012 19:07

We're getting a lot of release time at the moment to ensure all of our policies are up to date, especially as we're expecting the dreaded O in the next few weeks. If staff have new responsibilities, they will need some release time to get it done.

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/09/2012 19:11

Without knowing why they where not there it is a bit difficult to say

noblegiraffe · 10/09/2012 19:16

What is an 'avoidable cover lesson' and why do you think these teachers took one?

lovebunny · 10/09/2012 20:11

term started on 6 sept.

cover in my department goes:

teacher A - all day today. she is pregnant and symptoms of a thrombosis. should she come in?

next tuesday - teacher B - she will be off work because her childcare has fallen apart and no-one can take her 3yr old and 18mo. it's one day, she's taking it without pay. should she come in?

next wednesday - teacher B - she will be at another school, sharing good practice, because she's an experienced and valued member of staff taking part in workplace development? should she come in?

the wednesday morning following - whole team, five teachers, all morning. i'm leading the training in something we're teaching all the time. should i let everyone carry on without training?

can't be in lessons all the time and be a human being and a fully-trained member of staff.

Flisspaps · 10/09/2012 20:12

Exactly - teachers generally aren't absent from lessons without good reason. If it's avoidable then usually it's avoided!

kim147 · 10/09/2012 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 10/09/2012 20:15

Cover supervisors are not teachers , they manage the work set by teachers>

Mind you, they usually have a superior degrees.

Original poster
newstarticus · 10/09/2012 20:19

OK, fair points, I appreciate there will be reasons which is why I asked the question here.

I'll definitely ask the school though and will see what answer they give.

OP posts:
nameuschangeus · 10/09/2012 20:23

lovebunny - surely training the whole team should be done outside of school hours?

The teacher with child care issues - if that was me I'd have to find an alternative childminder, which is someone I have up my sleeve just on case of emergencies.

Illness I obviously would agree with.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 10/09/2012 20:32

Op you really think the school is going to tell you the Mrs Smith broke her tooth and needs an emergency filling, Mr Brown had a bereavement, Ms Green had a miscarriage, Mr Black got burgled etc etc

2girls2dogs · 10/09/2012 20:32

I had the misfortune to work as a cover supervisor once - it was the worse job i have ever had. Zero repect from the kids and zero respect from the teachers. I had NO training whatsoever, hadn't set foot in a classroom since i left school 20 years previously. Sometimes the teachers would set cover work, or if they were sick another member of the department would, but for the most times there would be no cover set and the kids would be told to do what they did in the previous lessons. The teachers would talk to me as if i were stupid if i dared to ask for guidance, despite the fact that i have a PhD i was just treated like an idiot. I received less than minimum wage once it was "pro-rata'd" for the school holidays.

I left - but not because of what i described above but because i was given no training at all (was supposed to shadow the existing CS but she got called away in my first lesson, so i had to cope and they decided i'd be ok) and no cover would be set, that i was doing the students a disservice because i had no idea how to set discipline, some of the teachers felt it wasn't my place so the kids just run wild. The final straw for me was when i was put to cover a revision lecture the morning of a GCSE maths exam despite maths being my weakest subject and i felt unable to really help. I muddled through and got a group of the students to explain to me adding and subtracting of fractions. The rest were pretty pissed off and i just told them to go and find the head of department and express their anger. I handed my notice in that day :( I was considering a career in teaching but this totally put me off.

noblegiraffe · 10/09/2012 20:37

Don't forget that cover supervisors used to only be able to cover 3 days of absence. Now that Gove has abolished the requirement to be a qualified teacher to teach, cover supervisors like 2girls could legitimately be asked to cover long term absence.
Nice one, Gove.

2girls2dogs · 10/09/2012 20:40

yep - that was about it noble, the RE teacher at the school was never there and i pretty much covered all his lessons for that six weeks. The rest of his lessons were being taken by his teaching assistant. He wasn't in work for one day of when i was there - i think he had a breakdown (im hardly surprised actually!)

lovebunny · 10/09/2012 22:19

well, let me see, nameuschangeus, are you prepared to work for four hours, unpaid, after a day's hard work? no? then the training has to be done during working hours. that isn't unreasonable. it is exactly what would happen in other jobs.

lovebunny · 10/09/2012 22:23

as for childcare - when every one of five back-up carers is unavailable, the mum will have to stay off work. she'd bring the children in, and teach her classes, but that isn't allowed.

ObscuredByClouds · 11/09/2012 00:47

Gove has said unqualified teachers are allowed to teach in academies. State schools still have to employ qualified teachers for long term cover.

ObscuredByClouds · 11/09/2012 00:49

Just to add, I would speak to the head of the relevant department/s to express your concerns. They should be able to put you in the picture and hopefully offer you some reassurance.

manicinsomniac · 11/09/2012 00:57

That does sound like a lot. Might be unfortunate conicidence but worth looking into.

training during school hours (in school that is, courses I get) is a new one on me. Ours is all done in holidays or after school. I don't think of it as unpaid because I don't think teachers are paid for certain hours are we? Just for doing the job? If we're paid for hours then I definitely want compensation for my 11pm boarding night duties! :p

the sick kids is regrettable and should be worked around if at all possible but there will be cases where it's impossible.

staff sickness - unavoidable but some people (not just teachers, all people) are way too quick to take to their sick beds imo.

IHeartKingThistle · 11/09/2012 01:30

My last school did a Year 7 residential trip early in the term and all Year 7 tutors had to go on it. Could it be something like that?

lovebunny · 11/09/2012 06:07

interesting, manicinsomniac. no-one from your school ever goes on a course? i'm surprised. but schools make their own arrangements, so anything is possible.

noblegiraffe · 11/09/2012 07:14

obscured that would be more comforting were it not the goal to have all state schools become academies, no? I think the aim is by 2015.

noblegiraffe · 11/09/2012 07:18

manic teachers are paid for directed time. I'm not sure if you're a boarding school whether the rules are different. You can't be told to do training outside of directed time (which includes INSETs), so no, you can't be expected to go into school in the holidays to do it, or stay late after school, unless it's in the diary as directed time.