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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not to know what is middle class

367 replies

Goldchilled7up · 08/09/2012 22:49

Inspired by another thread in chat, what does middle class mean to you?

I seriously don't know. Aibu?

OP posts:
ninah · 09/09/2012 01:46

yeah same same raven
it's been fun. nn

NellyJob · 09/09/2012 01:50

yer it's been funny.....

StuntGirl · 09/09/2012 04:37

I like how scarlettsmummy has taken it upon herself to be the spokesperson for the middle classes Grin

Leena49 · 09/09/2012 05:26

I think I'm middle class and my brothers are. We are all uni educated. Drink red wine. Get hung up on 'the grape' well brothers do. Eat lunch not dinner. I always play it down with brothers if had beach holiday unless its France or Italy. Read the observer and guardian. A few years ago I had a go at MIL who said I should have more than 2 kids and I said I was not prepared to have more that I could afford to support through uni. She had 6 but thought uni was a waste of time.
I don't think it has much to do with money at all. More value of education and seeking out the better things not just having lots of crap e.g hanging onto a great old banger of a car. Buying new cars I see as chavvy.
It's very British this class thing and unfortunately instantly recognisable when someone is trying to fit in to their perception of middle class.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 09/09/2012 05:40

Middle class means university educated.

That's out of the window since NuLabour decided 50% of school leavers should go to university. There are universities and ex-polys. The dustmans son who went to an ex-poly to do media studies isn't in the same league as the doctors son who went to Cambridge to read politics.

You can't define "class" it just is. There are so many nuances we (as British) understand but cannot put a finger on from education, accent, clothing styles, music tastes, money (inherited or earned), leisure pursuits, that other countries (especially Americans) cannot ever hope to understand.

Earning power, job and education are no longer sole indicators of "class". The dustmans son now has as much likelihood of getting a degree and becoming a politician, as the doctors son has. Society is much more fluid.

A good example would be "bankers". Anyone with a bit of savvy can go into the city and make a fortune - you can buy the car, the trophy wife, send your kids to private school, dress at the best bespoke tailors in Savill Row, even have a holiday cottage and ski at Koisters - but you'll still be the class equivalent of a secondhand car trader with the gift of the gab, compared to the old money public school educated, who may have a town house and a country pile (all inherited), who quite probably drives an old banger because ostentatious displays of wealth are - so middle class Wink.

Money cannot buy class, class just is.

What was the question? What is Middle Class? Inspector Morse is lower middle class. Boris Johnson, upper middle class - why? no inherited wealth, grand child of immigrants who married well. People perceive him to be upper class but he isn't because although he has the education, the vocabulary, voice inflections and the connections, he doesn't have the actual wealth, titles and land that go with being upper class.

mathanxiety · 09/09/2012 05:45

Glad I'm Irish.

tethersend · 09/09/2012 07:25

I know my place.

SomersetONeil · 09/09/2012 07:46

Jaysus, captainhastings - way to illustrate your own point perfectly. Grin

Could you think you are any more worthy??

kerrygrey · 09/09/2012 08:05

Not sure about newspapers as indicators of class, but do remember my old history teacher saying there were three kinds "some for those who can both read and think; others for those who can read but not think, and some for those who can neither read nor think" The poor old dear is dead now but many of her bon mots live on in my family folk law.

And I'm another no-telly household, because I'm poor and the license fee isn't worth it for the 2 hours or so a week I'd watch. I'll get one when I'm 75 and don't have to pay it.

BeeBee12 · 09/09/2012 08:12

working class- most people

middle class - mrs bucket types

upper class - the queen

Katienana · 09/09/2012 08:35

The 50% target was never reached, it is more like 40%.
I think these days it has a lot to.do with attitude and leisure choices with finances being a less crucial factor. I am more educated and cultured than wayne rooney for example but he has much more money and can afford the holidays and education for his child that I cannot. Likewise the people who live in the flat beneath dh and I are quite different to us, they rent and we are buying, they wear tracksuits and we, er, don't, we have degrees from red brick uni and they have not, they smoke and we don't, we drink wine and they prefer alcopops. Obviously we have stuff in common too, like liking football, x factor, pop music, the local chip shop.
I don't really know what my point is to be.honest.

crackcrackcrak · 09/09/2012 08:54

I have a telly but I don't have sky and I don't watch x factor etc.

I'm
A single parent do that probably makes me a bit WC but I send dd to lots of activities, one of which I'm somewhat pushy about.

But....I make her queue nicely instead of letting her shove other kids aside whilst shouting 'that's right Seth/Barnaby/Archie!' which probably makes me WC again.

We use 'middle class assertive' to mean badly behaved kids with posh accents and it's not a compliment Grin

MadBusLady · 09/09/2012 08:55

I know earnings don't currently bear any relationship to the whole middle class thing, scarlettsmummy I just think they should. The disconnect is so total it's bonkers.

DolomitesDonkey · 09/09/2012 08:56

Yabu to be grown woman and claim to not know.

captainhastings · 09/09/2012 08:57

Somerset, I am about as far from worthy as you can get, definitely from the not giving a fuck class.

My point were not about middle class people but those people who bang on about being middle class . The types who start threads saying " I am so middle class that my baby's first word was Volvo "

captainhastings · 09/09/2012 09:01

If you know any upper class types it is impossible to say that the class system does not exist in some form, it clearly does .

If like me you are from the kind of family that would make Shameless look like the archers , again it is difficult to say the class system does not exist.

However for you lot in the middle it is rather a mess.

I just know that no matter where I live, what I read , what qualifications I have and what we earn middle class types would not class me as one of there own , and that is fine with me.

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 09/09/2012 09:07

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure_of_the_United_Kingdom

Middle class

[edit]Lower middle class

The British lower middle class primarily consists of white-collar workers and their families living in less affluent suburbs. They are typically employed in white-collar but relatively unskilled service industry jobs such as retail sales, rail ticket agents, railway guards, airline stewardesses and ticket agents, travel agents, hotel clerks, shipping clerks, factory and other industrial building owners and low level civil service jobs in local and regional government. Prior to the expansion in higher education from the 1960s onwards, members of this class generally did not have a university education.
Member of the lower middle class typically speak in local accents, although relatively mild. Typical Mosaic Geodemographic types for this group include Sprawling Subtopia or for successful British Asians Asian Enterprise. Votes in this area are split and minority parties will have a stronger proportion. The comedy character Hyacinth Bucket is a satirical stereotype for this social group.

[edit]Middle middle class

The middle middle class in Britain often consists of people with tertiary education. They speak in accents which could range from received pronunciation, to provincial as well as Estuary English. They may have been educated in either state or private schools.[13]
Typical jobs include accountants, architects, teachers, social workers, managers, specialist IT workers, business people, engineers, or civil servants. Displays of conspicuous consumption are considered vulgar by them; instead they prefer to channel excess income into investments, including and especially property.

Members of the middle middle class are often politically and socially engaged and might be regular churchgoers, sit on local committees and governing boards or stand for political office. Education is greatly valued by the middle classes: they will make every effort to ensure their children get a university education; although they are sometimes unable to afford private schooling, they may go to great lengths to get their children into good state schools, such as moving house into the catchment area.[14]
They also value culture and make up a significant proportion of the book-buying and theatre-going public. They typically read broadsheet newspapers rather than tabloids. Typical Mosaic geodemographic types would include Provincial Privilege. The comedy character Margo Leadbetter is a satirical stereotype for this group, as is Jilly Cooper's Howard Weybridge.[11]
[edit]Upper middle class

Upper Middle Class

The upper middle class in Britain broadly consists of people who were born into families which have traditionally possessed high incomes, although this group is defined more by family background than by job or income. This stratum, in England, traditionally uses the Received Pronunciation dialect natively and was traditionally frequently associated with professionals with tertiary education.
The upper middle class are traditionally educated at more prestigious private schools, called "public schools". These were predominantly founded to serve the educational needs of the upper middle class, whose children have always constituted the majority of their customers.[15]
Many upper-middle-class families may have previous ancestry that often directly relates to the upper classes. Although not necessarily of the landowning classes - as a result, perhaps, of lack of a male heir - many families' titles/styles have not been inherited and therefore many families' past status became dissolved.
Although such categorisations are not precise, popular contemporary examples of upper-middle-class people might include Boris Johnson, Nick Clegg and David Cameron (politicians),[16] Helena Bonham Carter[17] (actress), Matthew Pinsent (rower and TV personality) and Nigella Lawson (television presenter).[18]

NellyJob · 09/09/2012 09:12

oh who gives a fuck this is getting boring

captainhastings · 09/09/2012 09:17

The class system as presented on Wikipedia is dull . The way that people choose to define themselves is far from dull . Watching people act in a tribal manner trying to fulfil their class expectations is also far from full.

It is also far from dull when you consider that the group in british society most likely to fail is white working class boys .

JumpingThroughMoreHoops · 09/09/2012 09:18

when you consider that the group in british society most likely to fail is white working class boys from single parent families - you forgot that bit.

everlong · 09/09/2012 09:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

captainhastings · 09/09/2012 09:24

I don't think you are perceived as a class because of your stuff . Perhaps you are more were of class if you move between classes. As someone who comes from a family of miners who was lucky enough to get into a top university, I was very aware that I was different to 99% of the people I was being educated with.

I then worked for a very "middle class" type of company and earned a very good wage. I earned the same money as many of my co workers and had many of he material things that they did but again I was clearly different to them.

everlong · 09/09/2012 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GerMom7 · 09/09/2012 09:32

There's a great three-part series on 4OD by Grayson Perry about class and taste. I watched the middle class one last night. Really interesting

captainhastings · 09/09/2012 09:39

Everlong I agree totally.

I can remember that when I first arrived at university I tried to fit in ( i am quite old so his is 20 years ago now when people were less likely to go to uni) and I didn't and I was miserable until I accepted who in was.

The same thing happened when I first started earning decent money, I tried to buy the clothes , cars etc that would make me for in. I didn't and there were people who were very happy to sneer at my attempts to try and appear middle class . I think when I hit 30 I accepted who I was and became much happier .