AIBU to think armpit hair is a moral issue?

[ICBINEG]

How did it come to pass that the natural appearance of an adult woman has become socially unacceptable?

Adult women have hair on their arms, legs, fanjo and (if you can bear the disgustingness of it all) armpits.

In a not at all surprising turn of events the natural appearance of an adult male is still considered attractive including (god forbid) hairy legs, arms, balls and armpits.

Why have we adopted a prepubescent look as the optimum for women but mysteriously not done the same for men?

AIBU to next shave myself when shaving becomes compulsory for EVERYONE and not just those without a Y chromosome?

Observation of my SIL suggests it can take over a year to unlearn the societal conditioning and start seeing your own hairy armpits as attractive....a whole year to stop thinking the natural female form is repulsive....AIBU in thinking that society is totally fucked up?

post I don't know that I agree about it not being oppressive. You essentially have one half of the population being told/shown that they are just fine as they are (the dominant message in spite of buff hairless 007's because you get to see old, fat, ugly men on tele all the time), while the other half are essentially told that you will never be good enough and you must change yourself to be considered attractive and should devote a stupidly large amount of your time each day just to make yourself fit to be seen in public.

I find that pretty damn oppressive.

The thing is Rev - that's fine. That's ALL fine. As I said I wax, but I don't get my knickers in a twist that the reason that I do, and the reason MOST women do is because we are socially conditioned to do so.

I'm not slagging anyone off (I would be pretty hypocritical to do so), I'm not judging anyone, I'm not calling anyone stupid - I am merely saying that this need for us all to be hairfree is due to a societal shift. I don't necessarily think that shift is good or healthy for us as women, but it is what it is.

Everyone getting fucking ANGRY FACE and OH FFS!! about it is just, frankly, weird.

Well said, ICBINEG.

look, a hairy banana

And Shiirley, why the hell shouldn't you? I think it's a basic human desire to be clean, tidy, and attractive looking as far as possible. Different people have different standards when it comes to this, and I do not see why any one should be judged more harshly than another.

Anyone who thinks men are not subject to this is crazy! Men have been subjected to decades of being told that they ideally need to be well-toned, cool, aloof, well kempt, tall, have a large penis, be handsome, rich, wear theae types of clothes, have this type of hairstyle, use these particular products etc etc. The vast majority of men do not do end up conforming to this James Bondesque image. But guess what? The vast maority of women do not end up conforming to this Jordanesque image which the media might like us to think is ideal, either.

I hate this implied notion that women are all brainwashed sheep doing the bidding of men and they shave for their benefit rater than their own

rev I do get that everyone has the right to do what they like, but it simply isn't the case that our choices 'don't hurt anyone'. I conform in all sorts of ways and even if my reasons aren't the same as the people that do it out of habit or brain washing, it still compounds the fact that there is a very strongly selected norm and that people who fall outside it often suffer.

What I hate above all else on AIBU threads is when people say that it is none of anyone else's business what they choose to do. It almost never is.

I hope that I would never have any sort of contempt for anyone on the basis of what they do to their own bodies (piercing their kids ears is a whole different matter), but I a will judge like hell anyone who would select their friends based on such a thing (as was said openly on a not so distant thread).

Why the hell shouldn't I what psammead?

I'm not ashamed that I do those things

oh God I'm really confused!

So don't conform ICBINEG. Unless someone is pointing a gun at your head, you have a choice.
My Mum has never been that fussed about shaving. I had the good fortune to spend my childhood & teens endlessly going to pools & beaches with my Mum's hairy legs & pits & pubes escaping from her swimsuit. I was mortified, but no one ever hurled abuse at her & even if they had, she wouldn't have given a toss. She wore bright yellow flares on a regular basis in the late 1980s because she liked them!!!!

Anyone who hurls abuse becaue you are hairy is a moron. If you don't want to shave don't do it. Make your stand.

I'm a bloke. I shave my armpits in the summer because it means I don't smell so much on hot days. I also shave my chest because I only get about 7 hairs and they look stupid. I also shave my head because I'm going bald.

Shave away, OP :)

kayano of course you hate it...noone likes being subconsciously forced into finding their own body hair unattractive....

finding your own body repulsive is a terrible terrible thing. It qualifies as a mental health problem if it gets severe enough. Which is why the number of people who's genuine reaction to female armpit hair is EUWWWWW is so horrifying. It's just hair....it's supposed to be there....

I don't shave if I can avoid it. But like Rev, some sports require shaving/waxing for various purposes. And I agree that hair (much like a wool jumper) retains odor more than not-hair.

I do shave in the summer as I have a professional job and showing off hairy pits won't end my job, but reputation is important and so I look more professional than hippy. If I could wear long sleeves all year I wouldn't shave at all, but I can't, it's too hot. (although I can get away with minimal shaving)

in winter I am a woolly beast. I am not quite as woolly as the Dh, and he doesn't care (likes his winter mountain girl) so it works fine.

As far as swimming with loads of hair, well, I just go, I mean, for the majority of the time I'm under water so no one can see me anyway. And no one has ever said anything to me at all. Plus I am lucky in that there is a guy who also swims when I swim who must be half bear, he is literally covered in hair. I think the only parts that aren't are his feet and hands. and just around his eyes.

Lol Shiirley, sorry. I...am...in...the...slow...typers...group...

I wasn't having a go. You said, probably about 5 hours ago, that you enjoy doing all the make up, shaving, tanning stuff etc. That's what I meant. Why the hell shouldn't you do all that without being judged?

Hang on, it was you who said that? If not, then whoever said that then - why the hell shouldn't you?

WAKE UP Psammead!

Nah, it's OK, I don't feel judged or ashamed about my love of nail polish and lippy - honest to God. I think it's a massive misconception that feminists hate anything like that - it's nonsense!

I think the point of this thread is that the "you shouldn't be judged" gets all twisted up here on MN, from the REALITY which is women with Hairy pits DO get judged as "dirty, smelly, nasty" to the MNREALITY of "You are judging me for shaving". DYKWIM?

Agreed Shiirley, but I read your using "honestly!" twice withing a short post in the same vein as the whole angry face thing.

I must admit I am defensive on these threads. I've had a previous suggestion I make an appointment with my GP and ask how to get washed properly as I'm obviously dirty if I wax to feel clean, which reduced me to tears that day. Not that I've asked my GP about my sweating or how to stop pissing myself . And I do tend to rush in threads like this hoping women aren't being called the way I was.

Imagine though, that I was doing it due to a societal shift? I'm a wee bit chubby at the moment, society tells me to keep slim, I'm still sat here eating a pizza with DS . How come it's assumed I'm bright enough to decide for myself what is best in all aspects of my life, but as one option in this scenario involves me having a vagina it's oppressive and I am therefore oppressed?

It's like when DS decided to cut his long hair, I got lots of "So you've finally decided to let him look like a boy?" Erm, no, I decided to let him have it how he wanted, before he wanted it long and now he wants it short. It's hair, it grows, it's his not mine.

So. Because it's wrong to judge women for having underarm hair (which it is), it automatically follows that it's ok to judge women who don't have underarm hair? No, I don't think it works that way. I shave my armpits when I can be arsed. Why I do that is none of anyone else's damn business, just as it wouldn't be anyone's business if I didn't. It does not make me a bad feminist, and it doesn't make me oppressed. Stop judging me. It's just as wrong as the opposite.

< Joings Psammead in slow typers corner >

Yes, Shiirly. MN gets a bit worthy in some things and sort of misses the actual point.

In my opinion, neither extreme is something to be judgey about. It's the judginess that I see as wrong, rather than the original 'crime'. Judging a woman for one thing is just as bad as judging them about the opposite thing in this case.

But then some posters will come back and say that they absolutely most definitely knew someone would come out with that old chestnut and that's just the oldest excuse for conformity in the book and poor little media addled me. Or whatever. Paah.

I love 70s hirsute men - cor!

It is fashion, isn't it? It goes in cycles and at present, we are in a hair free cycle.

Whoever addressed me earlier

Well done for making me feel like a stupid woman with no capacity to make my own decisions about my own body

I never said I find it repulsive either. I wish people would read instead of blindly pushing their own agenda sigh

"Agreed Shiirley, but I read your using "honestly!" twice withing a short post in the same vein as the whole angry face thing."

er, no, I'm just a bit shit sometimes.

I know what you meant now Shiirley and I just read it a bit defensively is all, I am sorry.

Blimey - what a storm in a tea cup. Heaven help us all if were ever seriously oppressed.

No, no Post. Heaven help the oppressors

No worries, I'm sorry that someone said something to you that made you feel so badly.

I think the problem with these sorts of discussions are that some people are talking on a political level (Hair Removal As A Feminist Issue) and others are talking on a personal level - so those people feel judged by the political analysis. DYKWIM?

But seriously, if someone told you to seek help as to how to wash your bits and bobs then that was just MEAN and RUDE. I sweat like a monster at the gym and when running so I do understand where you're coming from.