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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think armpit hair is a moral issue?

415 replies

ICBINEG · 07/09/2012 13:57

How did it come to pass that the natural appearance of an adult woman has become socially unacceptable?

Adult women have hair on their arms, legs, fanjo and (if you can bear the disgustingness of it all) armpits.

In a not at all surprising turn of events the natural appearance of an adult male is still considered attractive including (god forbid) hairy legs, arms, balls and armpits.

Why have we adopted a prepubescent look as the optimum for women but mysteriously not done the same for men?

AIBU to next shave myself when shaving becomes compulsory for EVERYONE and not just those without a Y chromosome?

Observation of my SIL suggests it can take over a year to unlearn the societal conditioning and start seeing your own hairy armpits as attractive....a whole year to stop thinking the natural female form is repulsive....AIBU in thinking that society is totally fucked up?

OP posts:
theodorakis · 08/09/2012 13:28

I can honestly say I wouldn't comment on it. The only exception is ridiculous eyebrow arrangements.

Anyway, bum fluff or not, I am so happy, whilst being on this thread I have also completed my hardest MSc assignment so far, just hope I didn't get the web pages mixed up, can you imagine my paper on the impact of outsourcing having a paragraph about my colleagues bum shaving arrangements!

theodorakis · 08/09/2012 13:33

I think Somerset's point about X Factor is relevent actually. The popular media does of course attack women who are fat or old or ugly. X Factor simply would not have a fat old lady on unless she was the "grandma" judge. They wouldn't have Susan Boyle on camera for too long except to show how they champion the underdog. So, why exactly is she an underdog? She has an amazing voice, a reasonably content life (as in not homeless or suffering persecution etc) so I am thinking we are saying she was an amazing surprise because of the way she looked. Stupid. Ever seem Andrew Lloyd webber? So bloody what, he's very talented.
I am much more interested in discussing why we as women are conditioned in so many ways to believe that looks will get you further than anything and also, why women are so aggressive to other women. Never mind their bloody pubes, that's the least of my worries.

Kayano · 08/09/2012 13:36

I don't think Susan Boyle being the underdog had anything to do with her being a woman actually I think it was her learning difficulties which people were not aware of and so she did seem to behave a little strangely.

She conformed too and had on a nice fitted Lacey dress if I remember.

theodorakis · 08/09/2012 13:38

I think it was her looks, people generally just don't think that deeply about things.

Kayano · 08/09/2012 13:38

And I don't think the world
Was aware of Susan boules shaving habits at the time of BGT so I still don't get what this has to do with body hair

theodorakis · 08/09/2012 13:40

Please don't put those two in the same paragraph!
I know it is digressing a lot but still a little bit the same.
I didn't know she had LD though, sorry. I do actually live in a cave sometimes!

Laquitar · 08/09/2012 13:42

cory i don't know about Sweden -or even uk in the 60s-but i have read here about outside toilets and no hot water and cold weather so i thought that maybe this was the reason people here didn't bother too much. I was in Spain in the 60s and hair removing was popular at least in my family and circle.

Lurcio its C for me.

TeiTetua · 08/09/2012 21:20

SomersetONeil said "The whole point of this thread is that it seems even in this day and age, different rules apply to men and women."

That's true, of course, but beyond the fact that shaving of legs and armpits is required for women but not men, there's the issue that men aren't encouraged to show those body parts. So you might see a man down at the supermarket on a hot Saturday, and he might be showing his socially-acceptable hairy legs, or (less likely) his socially dubious armpits. But at a moderately respectable office or restaurant or theatre, you'll see women's legs and armpits, and they'd better be shaved--but no male equivalent is going to be tolerated. Any woman who doesn't like shaving can wear trousers and clothes with sleeves, and nobody will be the wiser. True, down at the supermarket on Saturday, she'd look a bit odd with those hairy legs showing. But it's plainly wrong to be concerned about who needs to shave and who doesn't, if you ignore who needs to cover up and who doesn't.

Gimblinginthewabe · 08/09/2012 21:27

I think there is definitely pressure on men too, a lot of them just aren't that bothered.

From my experience shaved pubes are not unusual and my DH trimmed his armpit hair the other day - I was a bit surprised but it looks so much nicer short!

greenhill · 08/09/2012 22:09

lurcio it is c for me too.

My DH and I both shave our armpits and trim our pubes. He doesn't like to be sweaty or smell of sweat either. It is his choice too. We are in our 40's.

It is not unusual for men to dislike their own body hair, especially as it coarsens and thickens as you get older and covers more surface area.

allthefun · 09/09/2012 00:02

Men shaving their armpits and pubes is so repellent I can't bear it.

I really like men who are happy with themselves and shaving their hair is just too insecure for my tastes. I don't mind men with long hair maybe for the same reason (got to be secure and a bit don't give a shit).

GothAnneGeddes · 09/09/2012 00:16

My DH is from a culture where both sexes trim/ remove armpit + pubic hair. He was shocked to find that most men in the UK keep theirs - he thought that was repellent.

Original poster
ICBINEG · 09/09/2012 00:35

goth that's a very interesting datum to add....so men can totally be persuaded that their own armpit hair is dirty...it's just that we don't have that meme in circulation in the UK currently.

I was sort of hoping men were immune or something...then all women would have to do is learn that response...but instead it seems to be a pan human weakness that we can be persuaded to hate our own bodies...

So ermm...how do we fix this? How do we tell the media to fuck off with their only showing the 1% of female diversity (and what like 10% of male diversity)?

OP posts:
BustersOfDoom · 09/09/2012 00:50

I really don't give a monkey's about what anyone else does with their body hair. I shave my legs and pits cos I prefer it that way. I sometimes wax the old ladygarden if I'm off on holiday but often let it lie fallow. I wasn't horrified by Julia Robert's hairy pits, personal choice innit?

The only body hair I have ever been perturbed about was my former male boss's nasal hair that he managed to cultivate and comb down into his moustache. And my FIL's eyebrows, that when he wears his glasses create a sort of furry film against the lenses so he can't see a damn thing. DP wants to sit him down and trim them. I have told DP that if he grows eyebrows like that I will cut them when he's asleep. He gave me his permission.

greenhill · 09/09/2012 00:57

allthefun it must be a shame to only meet insecure and unhappy men, the cause of their unhappiness must rest with their body hair issues (not a lack of self respect or a mental health issue then?)
What is so repellent about other people's aesthetic sensibilities? We are all different.

On a more general note, what gives anyone the temerity to criticise what others do? I believe it is bad manners to assume that people do things for reasons that they don't understand or are unaware of and I think it is patronising. I'd like to assume that people are self aware individuals.

icbineg 's point about social conformity and peer pressure is being confirmed by each expression of distaste. I'm impressed that it is up to over 350 posts too. This must be a very important topic..

SuperB0F · 09/09/2012 01:50

I don't think it's unimportant to attempt an analysis of how culture shapes our aesthetic expectations or attitudes to our natural bodies. There are certainly more trivial issues that get debated on mumsnet.

greenhill · 09/09/2012 05:56

superbof you are right. Everyone has an opinion on this topic because everyone has body hair (or used to).
Certainly some 'serious' topics can only attract a handful of replies, when people are wary of talking about things they know nothing about. On 'trivial' ones no one has that concern (especially me).

quirrelquarrel · 09/09/2012 09:41

Are you being ironic when you talk about the "disgustingness" of it? Hmm I don't get it. I don't think anything like that is disgusting- I'm not repulsed by my own hair, periods, etc, so why should I be by other people's? again, I just don't get it how even people my age get so het up about things like that. It's just dirty hair, or clean hair. So what!

I shave under my arms cos I don't want to smell and that takes a minute. I don't anywhere else. It's boring trying to get every last hair out and I don't like wearing jeans with shaved legs, it feels all funny. I have darkish hair all over my legs and I'm wearing shorts every day and if someone is bothered by that it's their problem....entirely.

It's a moral issue when the overall image of women is willingly compromised due to choices relating to this one feature, armpit hair, perhaps, yes.

thepeoplesprincess · 09/09/2012 11:19

goth that's a very interesting datum to add....so men can totally be persuaded that their own armpit hair is dirty...it's just that we don't have that meme in circulation in the UK currently

Would I be being far too simplistic and/or repressed to suggest it's a weather issue?

The UK is cold. Men don't sweat excessively here. But I can well imagine in hotter countries men might have decided collectively that bare pits are cleaner and fresher. As women have done here.

Original poster
ICBINEG · 09/09/2012 16:15

princess it isn't too simplistic but it is unfortunately nonsensical in that the hair in your pits is there to help you to sweat efficiently and hence lose heat. It wicks away moisture from the skin and actually reduces the feeling of sweatiness and also the smell. So more hair in pits means cooler and less sweaty skin, not hotter and more sweaty skin.

I had to check with DH as I started to not shave about the time I gave birth so it was always possible my sensitivity to smell had changed but he confirms that the smell of me (ick) is much less detectable and far fresher now that I am simply washing and not shaving than when I was washing shaving and deoderizing.

OP posts:
FriedEggsAndHam · 09/09/2012 16:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Houseofplain · 09/09/2012 16:42

No hairy pits!! You don't work out do you? Sweat and bo heaven. I don't like a matted mess of sweat and bo under my arms ta!

Oakmaiden · 09/09/2012 19:43

That really doesn't make sense though, thepeople'sprincess.

If it is hot enough for women to need to shave to deal with perspiration, then it is hot enough for me too.

Likelwise if it is not necessary for men to do so, then it cannot be necessary for women either...

imonlydancing · 09/09/2012 19:51

I like my armpit hair. I like to see how well its coming along and always get really impressed when it gets super long because I spent so long removing it I had no idea what it naturally looked like. I shave it very rarely sometimes.

GothicArchitectureEnthusiast · 10/09/2012 21:05

i am 15 years old and feel very strongly about this issue. i do not remove any of the hair on my body, not even my belly button hair or the "island" between my eyebrows and even though i am blonde i am still very hairy and it is extremely noticeable. however i am proud as it is a symbol of my puberty and is a perfectly natural biological process that all humans go through and should embrace.

i only know one other girl in my year who doesn't shave and she never wears skirts. i admit i do sometimes get picked on by people at school but i have never been abused by strangers in the street as some people have been suggesting so far. the people at school i feel very sorry for as they must have so little time to do anything worthwhile as they have about 101 beauty treatments to fulfil and also they have been bought up to be revolted by the sight of female body hair which means they lose out on getting to know perfectly decent, albeit hairy, people.

the claim that you have not been "conditioned" is a ridiculous notion as the practice of removing body hair has been ingrained in our society since about 1900 and so how could anyone ever really know what it is to not be "conditioned"? it has been accepted for so long that we don't even think about our own practices and prejudices and so do not see ourselves as "conditioned".

when people say they feel cleaner and less smelly they are also being ridiculous. the answer to smelly pits is simple: wash them and wear deodorant. most men wash them and wear deodorant and as far as i can tell most men don't smell. anyway having hairy armpits is far more comfortable when you are sweaty, contrary to much that's been said so far. once on a one off occasion when i had shaved i was surprised at how STICKY my skin became. every time i raised my arm, the two folds of skin there would peel away from each other like sticky back plastic which was not comfortable.

all in all I think , judging by what I've read so far, that some women wouldn't shave if they had the confidence and i think that if you are one of them , go ahead and don't look back. yes there are a few side effects but nothing will become normal and accepted if no one does it.

i have nothing against women who do shave ; the people at school mentioned above are a significant amount but not the majority. all of my friends do it . i just wish there wasn't such a huge big deal about perfectly natural human body hair.