AIBU to think armpit hair is a moral issue?

[ICBINEG]

How did it come to pass that the natural appearance of an adult woman has become socially unacceptable?

Adult women have hair on their arms, legs, fanjo and (if you can bear the disgustingness of it all) armpits.

In a not at all surprising turn of events the natural appearance of an adult male is still considered attractive including (god forbid) hairy legs, arms, balls and armpits.

Why have we adopted a prepubescent look as the optimum for women but mysteriously not done the same for men?

AIBU to next shave myself when shaving becomes compulsory for EVERYONE and not just those without a Y chromosome?

Observation of my SIL suggests it can take over a year to unlearn the societal conditioning and start seeing your own hairy armpits as attractive....a whole year to stop thinking the natural female form is repulsive....AIBU in thinking that society is totally fucked up?

DH has a lot of stubble that he keeps neat (I wouldn't call it a beard)

His brother gets the piss ripped out of him apparently for having bum fluff on his face so he shaves

This is not a woman only issue

*cory
My point is how come it's ok for them to have a choice?

I think it is sad that woman are 'expected' to get rid of armpit/leg hair etc.

If we weren't told so many times that it was 'disgusting' then it probably wouldn't be such a big issue when you're a 12 year old and convinced that you have hairier legs than everyone else!

It should be a choice, without recrimination, whether to get rid of body hair or not. But I feel that due to negative media portrayal this choice has been taken away from us.

Sad. Teenagers these days don't have a chance with all the crazy peer/media pressure.

Yes, exactly - how come it is OK for them to have a choice?

Interesting DP has a MASSIVE beard. (And is competing in the national beard and moustache competitions.)

I prefer being able to see his face but understand that he prefers to have a beard.
It has been known for people to high five him in the street in appreciation of his facial hair, but also last week in the supermarket a wee boy said to his mum
"Look at that man's beard!!!"
And the mum replied "He looks like a druggie Jesus. Beards are for homeless people."

I was [hmmm]. Teach your child to be as judgemental and close-minded as yourself. Well done!

Maybe people wanted to de-hair in older times too but it wasn't very practical. Too much hassle to boil water and to go to the outside toilet in freezing cold. Today we have warm and nice bathrooms, hot water and w/m for the towels.
Someone mentioned Ancient-Egypt, yes they did but mostly the rich ones, looking after yourself, grooming and even been bathed and clean had for years to do with class and money.

Oh and muslim men shave so i imagine that in Qatar they are hair free.

Put it this way...

I'm a 30-something woman. I de-hair. I shave, I tweeze, I de-fuzz. I do all of that.

I have a 2-YO DD. When she gets old enough, I probably won't dissuade her from doing the same. Why would I? The grief she'd get as an impressionable young women, with human body hair, wouldn't be worth it.

I'd like to be more courageous, but it's not worth it really, is it?

Certainly not, going by this thread anyway...

I just want to reiterate, in case it's worth it... Probably not, but still.

I'm one of you. I de-hair. I purposely remove my hair because I 'choose' to and because I 'prefer' it.

I'm just not in denial about why I do it.

I think the reason men feel they have more choice is that the portrayal of 'successful' men in the media is so much more varied. They are allowed to be older, fatter, and have more characterful faces, and yes they may or may not have beards. Most men will see someone who looks at least a bit like they do naturally at least occasionally.

The typing of women is much tighter and hence only a tiny fraction of women will see someone who looks a bit like they do naturally. And so the choices are reduced.

Somer well you never know...maybe the truly natural look will be 'in' by the time our little ones grow up....

It's not even about seeing someone who looks like them, as far as I can see.

When you see a judging panel like X-Factor, or something daft like Strictly Come Dancing - the men are all knowledgeable and technical and experts in their field. It doesn't matter what they look like.

The women, on the other hand... It doesn't really matter how much they know, or what their background is, or where their expertise lies... All that matter is how good they look in a ballgown, or a skimpy dress.

Depressing.

Arlene Philips?

You are also overlooking the women on those panels talent an drive. Tulsa started a ban with her cousin and best mate, made a huge success of herself and is not doing solo projects

Nicole has an amazing voice and she is funny and clever and has experience
Of being in a band and as a solo artist and writes some of her own songs

Gary Barlow is the same.

So it's
Actually just you judging them on how they look

I spent a lot of time growing up in France and you used to see beautiful women with hairy pits. Now you don't, so this is incorrect.
It's not a moral issue. Why armpit hair and not facial hair? Why not make up, or even washing or cutting your hair? most of us, I'd imagine, just feel better when we make a bit of effort.

Unless there is a reason I don't know, I wonder if that is why there is so much hatred directed at Colleen Nolan from the British public on celebrity big brother. Thinking about it, people really hate other loose women and also people like Judy Finnegan. If you are Clare Raynor or Denise this Morning woman it is ok, you are the token great aunt figure. Interestingly, Carol Vorderman gets a lot of stick but someone else of her age, Julia Roberts etc doesn't.
So, I absolutely agree with that although I think that a lot of the judges, because they have to be generally younger to be acceptable, are not as experienced or talented.

My DH has a beard and long hair, and gets quite a few comments, jokes (friends, me) and grief (from his boss, as he needs to look smart) !

He also gets applauded by some staff at his workplace for "breaking the mould".

But it is a bit of a statement I guess, as is hair on women (esp. in visible places like pits, whilst wearing a tank top).

Sorry, am I missing your point? Arlene Philips - a knowledgable and technically capable judge, was bumped for someone good looking...

My dads got long long hair and a moustache. I've always looked up to him.

I shave pits and legs, trim the ladygarden, pluck eyebrows and bleach/pluck moustache hair I do it because I am conditioned to think that hair anywhere on the body other than the crown is unfeminine. I am in my 40s so have escaped the porn-inspired fur-free fanjo craze. Reading that article was enlightening. I shaved my fanjo once in my 20s and it was so bloody itchy after one day - never again!!

Of course, I've been conditioned to do it. I don't have a DP and am not looking for one either but I still do it.

My feminist self is very uncomfortable when my young DDs see me engaged in hair removal or disguise. We talk about it. I explain that there are different points of view and they should make up their own minds. Unfortunately, they will probably be similarly hirsuite when older so I can guess which path they will take.

It is crap OP but it is one battle too far for me.

She judges another show though, and again you are overlooking alesha's talent. She was a phenomenal dancer and performer too. She has left too though hasn't she? Made her own decision about what suited her best and all that?

Don't even know why you brought this all up tbh, we were talking about armpit hair. For all you know Arlene might wax more than alesha?

Sadly, despite being a hairy mary, I am probably conditioning my son into thinking hairy ladies are wrong. He frequently asks me why I shave my legs etc and I tell him because people don't like to see ladies with hair, but it's okay on men. He knows that I'll show my hairy legs at home but not out in public. I should be braver to go against the grain, but I'm not.

Laquitar Sat 08-Sep-12 11:01:47
"Maybe people wanted to de-hair in older times too but it wasn't very practical. Too much hassle to boil water and to go to the outside toilet in freezing cold. Today we have warm and nice bathrooms, hot water and w/m for the towels."

We had central heating and indoor toilets in Sweden in the 1960's; it was just the idea that de-pilating was more hygienic that hadn't quite caught on. And I do remember being told about the Ancient Egyptians as an amusing example of how different ancient cultures could be, not as something modern people should or were ever likely to aspire to.

Can I try to shift the focus of the discussion from why any given individual chooses to shave (or not) - "it's cleaner", "I like the way it looks", "I don't want to look like a 70s East German shot-putter", "I feel socially pressured to do it" - just to reiterate some of the answers. Instead I want to ask what your response is when you meet another woman who doesn't. Is it:
A) not to even notice whether she shaves or not?
B) think "great, a fellow non-shaver"
C) think "each to their own"
D) think "I wish I had the guts to look like that?"
E) think "she'd look so much better if she tidied herself up a bit", but keep that thought to yourself?
F) as E, but mention it in passing in a "you'll never guess what I saw today" sort of way to your nearest and dearest?
G) Join in the lunchtime office bitch-fest about how Jane from accounts looks like an East German shot putter.

Thing is, if even 10% are prone to answer G, it makes it pretty miserable for those who don't want to shave (and it really does happen - people up thread have said they started shaving in their teens after being made fun of in school). And doesn't it strike you as odd that while it's easy to imagine people saying "John from accounts looked much better without a beard", it's more or less impossible to imagine a lunchtime bitch-fest about it.