AIBU to ask if it's possible to discipline your child without crushing them?

[emeraldgirl1]

Briefly, my own mother was a total tyrant (didn't help she also has pretty obvious tho undiagnosed narcissistic/hysterical personality disorder) and me and my siblings grew up terrified of her rages/temper. She used physical discipline when we were v small (though may have been normal (?) for the 70s??) and just in general would never brook any disagreement about ANYTHING. Also wouldn't brook too many opinions about anything that didn't match her own either! :( However in her mind, the way she talks about it now, her children were just 'naturally' well-behaved and never willful or disobedient and she never had to tell us off for being naughty (er... we were never naughty it's true but only cos we were so scared of her!!)

Am newly pg with my first and am wondering how I am ever going to be able to instill discipline in my child without turning out like my mother :(

My DSis has children who (though wonderful) do run absolutely riot and are pretty out of control; my amateur psychologist opinion fwiw is that she has been so terrified of 'crushing' them and/or scaring them like our mother did that she has been totally unable ever to instil any boundaries or discipline; she doesn't say no to anything ever and her children do play her up in a really awful way, almost embarrassing at times what she lets them get away with. OTOH they are fundamentally nice and happy kids and I think she would rather them be absolute devils than have them go through what we did as kids.

I just don't know if I can face the thought of such total chaos myself, however, and am desperate to believe that I will be able to instil discipline of the most basic kind without having my child frightened of me. But honestly, even typing the word 'discipline' frightens me and makes me imagine I will suddenly become a frightening figure to my child, bullying him/her the way I remember all too well. But I really don't want to bring up a child, like my sister's, who has no boundaries, who won't ever do a single thing they are told etc. Nephews and niece have totally dominated my sister since the day they were born, every nappy change was a battle like I have never seen before, as toddlers they would sometimes hit her with no consequences, too many more stories of domestic chaos to write about!!

Are there any books I can read to help me with this? Is it even possible, I have to ask, to have children who will do what you tell them (within reason!!! I am not expecting little angels, honest!!!) but who are not scared of you?

Worried I am going to go either the way of my sister or the way of my mum and I want to believe I can achieve something different for my child :(

Yy to Playful Parenting.

Also highly rated here is "how to have a well behaved child" by William Sears. The subtitle is something like "good discipline from 0 to 10". It's all about loving and nurturing attachment parenting but with boundaries, and has lots of case studies to illustrate.

Maybe borrow a copy from the library to see if it might suit? In fact, you have quite a reading list to get through now!

Zeno my reading list is long but much appreciated!!
Though seeing as I am currently too freaked out by pg to read the What To Expect When You're Expecting book on my bedside table, I think maybe some of the excellent suggestions on here will have to take a back seat for just a little while :)

You use two books - toddler taming and my personal favorite the complete secrets of happy children by Steven biddulph. Great guide to parenting. I want to be the best parent I can be.

Some excellent books recommended it sounds like, so personal experience from me.

Ds is only 8, so we may have got it horribly wrong, but he's a pretty likeable chap. He's always been his own person, and inherited my stubbornness, but when we've had to discipline him he's never been in doubt that he's loved - and liked - because that's the bit my own parents never gave me - they didn't really do hugs, and we were often treated as awkward logistics rather than children.

So there have been times when ds and I have both been in tears, but not for a few years now .

And I've told him from a very young age that its not my job to make him love me, its my job to make him loveable. He says he loves me quite often though - I'm going to miss it when he's older...

I focus on praising to high heaven and recognising all the good, positive things about my children. Any time they do anything even vaguely good or worthy or positive, they get praised.

Some people may think this is overkill, but it means two things:

1. They repeat good behaviour rather than bad, as it's good behaviour that gets all the attention?

1. There is hardly any bad behaviour and so discipline is so very rarely an issue anyway (DCs are 3 and 2 so I'm not naive enough to think it's all going to be plan sailing, but it's working well so far).

One of the best books I read when DC1 was a babe in arms was Divas and Dictators - can't remember the author - Charlie someone, maybe?

The whole premise of the book is on focusing on the positive rather than the negative. That children thrive on their parents attention; need it and seek it, and if they can't get it, they play up. Attention for bad behaviour is better than no attention at all.

He recommends the 6:1 ratio of raise to criticism, so 6 instances of recognising good behaviour for every telling off. Sends a very clear message that good behaviour is what gets all the attention. He has worked with all sort of children with behavioural issues, in schools with really low performing pupils from abused and neglected backgrounds, and he says without fail, it's praise rather than discipline and punishment (or the threat of) that consistently improves behaviour.

Some people may think the praise is empty and hollow and loses meaning over time, but well, for us, it just doesn't. I praise my two all the time, for anything even vaguely good and you can see an actual physical reaction in them when they get that praise - they're happy, proud of themselves and it's not doing their self-esteem any harm at all.

As for bad behaviour - this obviously has to be addressed as well. Kids benefit from boundaries and the word 'no'. They need something to kick against and to feel secure about. Consistent boundaries make them feel safe and secure and sure of their place in the world.

But for me, focusing on the good behaviour rather than the bad has created a virtuous circle whereby the good so far outweighs the bad.

As everyone else has said, the fact that you're worrying about this and thinking about it means you'll be just fine. :)

What to expect when you're expecting is a lovely book, it's very funny, a great read in my opinion - taught me lots but cheered me up at the same time

I would also recommend The Mumsnet Rules, I heard it's vair good

This is a lovely thread and I empathise with a lot of what has been said about growing up with a frightening parent. I think, by thinking about this seriously before it comes up, that you will be a lot better as a parent just because you see what the issue is and are prepared to try and tackle it.

I grew up with a mother who was terrifying, violent, angry and uncontrolled and a father who was largely at work and did little to mitigate my mother's behaviour when he was at home. I have better relationships with them now (am 43) but still feel desperately sad about how unfair and unkind and lacking in care their behaviour was.

I agree with the poster who talked about recognising how my (not badly meant) behaviour when I was a child and baby may have made my mother feel as a young and largely unsupported parent - I have felt anger and despair many times as the mother of a small child but have been able to recognise it and (mostly) not let it turn into something worse or more damaging.

I am a relatively strict parent but I think for me that unpicking things and thinking 'now, is this really important and is it something that matters to both of us or is it just annoying me because I'm tired/hormonal/fed up' has helped. I try to pick my battles, not just in terms of what I can win which is how the term is often used but in terms of whether it really matters. So I have let DD win the 'I want the green cup' argument when I've just given her the pink one. But when the pink one isn't clean, I've tried to explain it in an age-appropriate way and it's not negotiable because actually it does matter to me if I have to hoik it out of the sink and wash it when I'm trying to cook dinner.

I do shout, sometimes. I do lose my temper, sometimes. I try not to let it spill over into being something that isn't able to be properly taken on board by my daughter. I do a lot of explaining! If I can't explain it to her, then maybe it's not a battle I want to be having. Sometimes 'that's dangerous/annoying/takes too long' can be a reasonable explanation if annoying or time-consuming actually matter at that point. So if DD is throwing a ball in the kitchen and getting in my way, it's annoying me when I am trying to cook or wash up. That matters to her because it will take me longer to wash up and make me grumpy. But I will point out politely that she can go and throw it somewhere else but if she wants to be with me in the kitchen, then she has to think of something less irritating to do.

Mostly, explaining does seem to work and I have found that even very small children can understand where you're coming from if you pitch it at their level. DD is really a very well-behaved child. She does get upset when I'm cross but I think it's appropriate upset because I try only to let the crossness really escape when it matters. So if I tell her off for being rude or unkind she knows I really mean it.

Also, I tell her all the time how much I love her and make it clear that I value her company and that I want to hear what she thinks. We have a lovely relationship. She tells me absolutely everything. She's still only quite small but I think we are doing OK. Certainly she tells me stuff that I would never ever have dared to tell my mother (like stuff about getting into trouble at school or having done something wrong). I hope we can stay friends as she gets bigger.

I think you will be fine, from what you've posted so far.

Oh, and when in doubt, I tend to think 'what would my mother do? I won't do that'. It hasn't led me far wrong yet.

Sorry, that was massively long!

I think positive parenting techniques are good if you can find anything to read/learn on that.

I was in a similar situation to you I think.

I've kind of played it by ear and fumbled along but in hindsight:

In early years when they really don't know what's right or wrong, distraction technique is good. No we're not going to pull nana's plants to bits, lets play bricks instead type of thing. As they get a bit older the stern, shocked look can be good. Taking them out of a situation - e.g. throwing sand at the park - if you keep doing that we'll have to go. Then if they keep doing it, leave.

As they get older say 4 onwards, you can explain things more - how do you think x felt when you did that? Do you think Mrs B can keep you all safe if you are doing y? What could happen if you didn't stay close to me at the shops?

I don't think it does any harm to say no. Mine would like to go to the sweet shop every day. I'll say no, not today and they just accept it really.

Just find something that works for you, preferably without involving shouting or hitting - just my view and I can't say I've always managed not to shout on occasion but it's my aim. One thing I have realised is that in our family bad behaviour escalates when I spend less time with dc. It improves if i give a bit of extra time.

I think you'll be fine from what you've said in your post, simply because you recognise potential problems and you care about it.

With my first pregnancy I re-visited parenting issues which I thought were resolved. Very upsetting nightmares. Pregnancy is hard work in so many ways.

When I met my baby I understood immediately I would not repeat my parents mistakes.

Go easy on yourself, you will do your very best and have faith in your capacity to love.

I think another thing is to work really closely with your DH. DS and I had a very fraught 'not leaving the playground scene' after school today. He pushed my buttons, I overreacted, by the time DH got home I was convinced I had turned into my mother.

I haven't. I didnt do very well today, but I'll do better tomorrow. So will DS (he pinkie promised). And most days I do really, really well. But I needed DH to remind me of that.

Reading some of the posts after mine reminded me of two things that I've heard/seen.

One was Supernanny (I know, I know!). She said, imagine if you started a new job, and no-one told you what the rules were, what you were supposed to do or how to go about it. Then, at the end of the day, you got into trouble for doing something you shouldn't have done. You'd be annoyed. You like to know what the rules are. It's the same with children. But it's not just a new job, it's their life they are trying to figure out, so communication is vital. They need to know what is on and what isn't. You don't need to be harsh about it - it's why a warning is important as it means they realise what they are doing is wrong and have a chance to change it before getting told off for it.

The other was in a really old book my gran gave me called 'I should have seen it coming when the rabbit died'. The author talks about getting her kids to talk to her - she says she had to learn not to interrupt. She said her son will come home from school saying "Guess what happened today" and she interrupts to say "Go and hang up your coat". He does, and they both forget that they were about to have a conversation. Or she interrupted to correct grammar, or to ask if they had done what she asked them to do earlier. She says: "If you want your kids to talk to you, let them talk. Don't interrupt to correct, criticise or hand out chores. Just listen."
She does go on to say that it can be very boring when it is your toddler giving you a second by second account of their favourite cartoon.
The subject isn't important, the sharing is.

Crushing children can be lethal as a rule.

Crushing is for used cars at the scrapyard.

Shouting something similar to: ''right you, stop it now or else'' generally is a bit safer & quite effective; hth :)

(now will actually go back & bother to read the OP & rest of the thread)

Actually read OP now; i can see why you are concerned. The best thing is to be assertive; make sure the child knows it's their actions that are naughty & not them as a person; don't shout at them for every tiny thing but be calm yet firm.
Save proper tellings off for serious stuff or they will start to ignore you.

Sorry to hear your mother wasn't pleasant; my Mum did slap me & my sister a few times (in the 80s) so that was normal for the time; but she was generally lovely & saved a slap or shouting for when we really played up.