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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to hope that the predicted cabinet reshuffle kicks Gove out of education

106 replies

creamteas · 02/09/2012 13:58

he has done so much damage so far, I am really hoping he gets his walking papers.... even the devil we don't know has got to be better surely....

OP posts:
Abra1d · 02/09/2012 18:18

I hope Gove stays.

Feenie · 02/09/2012 18:20

I got excited at the prospect of a Gove shuffle a week or so ago, for about 5 minutes - then read this article nd was very disappointed. Sad

We can but dream.

Feenie · 02/09/2012 18:21

Really? And what do you find he is doing so well, Abra1d?

molepom · 02/09/2012 19:04

I want IDS and that other one Grayling GONE. These two have done more damage between them than I have ever seen.

Abra1d · 02/09/2012 22:16

I prefer politicians who are not afraid to be unpopular. I don't always like every single thing they do, mind.

gordyslovesheep · 02/09/2012 22:22

YANBU but sadly he wont go - I despise the little man - I am going through redundancy now thanks to him - twat

SiriusStar · 02/09/2012 22:39

Anyone up for a bit of bible bashing?

Feenie · 03/09/2012 07:22

What a fabulous reason to keep him as Education Secretary! I take it all back.Hmm

MigratingCoconuts · 03/09/2012 08:02

How far would you push that reasoning Abra??

Doesn't matter what they do, as long as they are not afraid ofbeing unpopular???

marriedinwhite · 03/09/2012 08:12

Not exactly sure what Gove has done that is wrong.

Is is wrong to drive up standards?
Is it wrong to have high expectations?
Is it wrong to give schools freedom to teach?
Is it wrong to to make schools accountable?
Is it wrong to change "satisfactory" (grade 3) into "requires improvement"
Is it wrong to face up to the fact that a young person does not need a degree to work in a high street bank or a call centre and seek a market correction?
Is it wrong to put the emphasis back on well educated rather than well qualified?

FWIW we removed our dd from a top 100 comp because behaviour. There was theft, violence and constant disruption - all we heard were excused for the minority. We wanted to see some action to secure the safety and education of the majority. Wasn't going to happen but if the British education system is going to drag itself back up the league tables, it needs to and it needs to fast.

Gove gets my vote.

MigratingCoconuts · 03/09/2012 08:23

Nothing...if he was doing any of those things.

Saying you are doing them and putting in well thought through policies that result in their happening are actually two different things.

gordyslovesheep · 03/09/2012 08:49

Is is wrong to drive up standards? no but he hasn't and they where not bad to begin with
Is it wrong to have high expectations? no as long as they are realistic
Is it wrong to give schools freedom to teach? they already had that
Is it wrong to to make schools accountable? they already where
Is it wrong to change "satisfactory" (grade 3) into "requires improvement" semantics
Is it wrong to face up to the fact that a young person does not need a degree to work in a high street bank or a call centre and seek a market correction? what if they WANT a degree for the sake of enjoying education
Is it wrong to put the emphasis back on well educated rather than well qualified? they are doing the opposite

hth x

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/09/2012 09:22

marriedinwhiteMon 03-Sep-12 08:12:59

I was goint to repeat everything that gordyslovesheep posted but I won't.

Is it wrong to change "satisfactory" (grade 3) into "requires improvement". It means that if you are doing your job you can still get fired.
and remember this is from a government that wants all schools to be above average Hmm

Bellyjaby · 03/09/2012 09:31

"Is it wrong to change "satisfactory" (grade 3) into "requires improvement". It means that if you are doing your job you can still get fired.
and remember this is from a government that wants all schools to be above average "

And that just shows how poor these politicians are. Not everything can be above average, or average would shift. By the laws of mathematics, whichever average you use, at least 49% are below average!!!!!

I asked my OH this morning for something to throw at Gove this morning. He responded "but you like the TV, don't hurt it" Grin

Can anyone explain to me why modular examinations are now evil? I took modular examinations in A level mathematics 15 Shock years ago. I went on to get a first class honours in maths and my "evil" modular examinations had more of the first year's course and basics covered than my classmates who'd done the more normal form of examination.

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/09/2012 10:16

Bellyjaby

"an anyone explain to me why modular examinations are now evil?"

As far as I can see its down to the belief that the correct measure of intelligence is to be able to recall information in a 2 hour exam.

One of the driving forces (at least as far as I was told) for modular exams is that they are a better reflection of the workplace.

ConferencePear · 03/09/2012 10:55

I heard him interviewed on the Today Programme this morning. He just didn't take on board the extreme unfairness that has been perpetrated by the English exam this year.
What ever he says about standards and so on is irrelevant to that. How can our children trust that the exams they take won't have the rules changed halfway through ?

floatingquoter · 03/09/2012 11:38

Gove will probably stay put. Hunt may go. I do not rate Govey.

ObscuredByClouds · 03/09/2012 12:47

I don't disagree with raising the bar as far as exams are concerned but to do it part way through an academic year without telling anyone is simply wrong. It would have been better to change things after the June exams.

I hope that in the future we see a return to o levels and cse's because they were a better measure of academic success. I also hope fewer young people enter university because currently it is seen more as a rite of passage than something reserved for those with the intellect/academic ability to cope. Far too many young people don't cope at university or take degrees which have no real meaning and are largely overlooked by employees. All that is being achieved currently is our future doctors/teachers/lawyers erc are being saddled with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt. I hope that there is a return to financial support for all students, relating to a smaller percentage whom enter university to begin with due to more realistic/rigorous grade boundaries/expectations.

The current system is a sham.

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/09/2012 13:19

I wonder if the FFT targets will also be adjusted to reflect the change in grade boundries?

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 03/09/2012 13:27

I agree that education is a political football, but the fact that it is is none of Gove's doing. He has to try and make the changes he feels are necessary against the background of that political reality, which is a substantial constraint. His headline policy, let's not forget, is one that at root will make schools harder to control and manipulate by central and local government, not easier. So I think we can probably assume that he'd like education to be less political.
I'm the parent of a child with ASD and I'm very much aware how those making the running, in terms of improving the education of kids like my ds, are operating in the private or charitable sectors. LEAs confine most of their efforts to trying to undermine parents' access to these sectors. So I'm instinctively friendly to any policy that favours diversity of provision in education. There are many innovations out there which the state providers are not harnessing. And too many LEAs offer at best mediocre education. time to let others have a go.

limitedperiodonly · 03/09/2012 14:11

I know what you mean OP but I'd quite like him to stay because Education Secretary is his dream job and there was absolutely no truth in the rumour that he was lobbying hard to replace William Hague at the Foreign Office a few months ago.

I'd hate for Gove to go somewhere he so clearly doesn't want with a ghastly big country house thrown in as well Wink

Abra1d · 03/09/2012 14:13

My children will only take IGCSEs. This is why we chose their schools, in part. We were worried about them ending up with discredited qualifications somewhere along the line. It's been apparent for years that GCSE was not fit for purpose--too easy for very academic children, especially when modular plus retakes. And not really of much benefit to kids with a less academic bent.

I'm not even sure that the IGCSEs are altogether vigorous, though. The English literature paper seems to major on twentieth-century texts. All well and good, but bright sixteen-year-olds should be challenged with literature out of their comfort zone: Shakespeare, Chaucer, Keats, etc.

epeesarepointythings · 03/09/2012 18:22

bright sixteen-year-olds should be challenged with literature out of their comfort zone: Shakespeare, Chaucer, Keats, etc.

Why?

Where does the idea come from that older = better quality? Shakespeare wrote a lot of plays that really weren't very good at all - in his time he was a jobbing playwright with deadlines to meet, you know. I read some Dryden recently because Michael Gove likes him so much, and I didn't think it was anything very special at all.

Having said that, I have nothing against teaching classical texts at GCSE level, but I would want them taught to all 16-year-olds - pitched and taught appropriately. My mother used to teach English as a foreign language in the Netherlands, and she was laughed at for teaching Shakespeare to students not working towards the equivalent of an A-level. She did it anyway, and it was hugely successful. If we're going to raise the bar, then surely the classic texts should be made available and accessible to all?

When I did my A-levels (also in Holland, English as a foreign language though I have been bilingual from the age of 11), we were required to read 15 full-length novels or plays for each language we took, 3 of which had to be from earlier than the year 1900. I'm sure something similar could be implemented for GCSEs too.

What concerns me most in the whole 'children must read X, Y and Z' debate is that the issue of reading as something pleasurable is completely lost. When I hear about the number of households where there are no books at all, that concerns me. We need to engage young people with literature, not force it down their throats.

picnicbasketcase · 03/09/2012 18:23

It doesn't matter how much reshuffling he does, they are all still a bunch of cockends and everyone who voted for them should be thoroughly ashamed.

creamteas · 03/09/2012 19:10

He has no real interest in education beyond assuming that what he did at school was the best.

The money that is being wasted on free schools is terrible, and there is no evidence to say that they will have any impact on attainment.

He has rushed through the change to linear GCSE next year, without giving any chance to change the curriculum properly. Not only is there no evidence that linear exams will improve education, but to change the timing of exams without a proper rewrite of the specification is a disaster waiting to happen.

Introducing a phonics test for primary with made-up words so good readers fail....

And the current fiasco of changing the grade boundaries in English mid-year is so obviously linked to all his statements about grade inflation....

Either he goes, or there there will be little left of education....

OP posts: