To worry about my DD becoming spoilt and entitled

[WhyTheBigPaws]

DD is 10 and is basically a good kid - nice manners, doing OK at school etc etc - but she is becoming very blase about treats, trips out etc and, to use a MN favourite word, a bit 'entitled'. I know some people will think we've created this problem by being typical middle class parents and I don't expect a great deal of sympathy but I would like to know if I'm BU to expect a bit more thought from her.

We're not rich by any means but are OK. We try hard not to spoil DD but like most of our friends we've had a week away in the UK this summer plus a few days out. This means saving throughout the year, juggling annual leave, working hard before and after the holiday to make up for the time off and so on but she doesn't seem to give that any thought, just takes it all for granted and pesters for ice creams, meals out etc on top.

She also seems quite underwhelmed by things we do a lot of the time - eg I got her tickets to one of her favourite bands as a birthday present and we went to the concert on Saturday. I think she enjoyed it but she almost seem to shrug it off as just another trip out, no big deal - she hardly told DH anything about it when we got home and didn't even thank me for taking her.

It's the same with clothes shopping - she's incredibly fussy, even about school stuff, and doesn't seem to realise that buying new uniform costs enough without her pestering for branded trainers and a third new school bag in 4 terms. I expected to have to deal with this when she's a teenager but not at 10!

She's also very reluctant to put much effort into anything, dashes off homework as quickly as she can and never seems to take much trouble over anything. She's much worse at amusing herself in the holidays than she used to be - she'd prefer to sit watching TV for half the day than do anything creative. She will help around the house if nagged but doesn't do it with very good grace. It's as though she expects a nice life without having to do anything to earn it and I don't want her to grow up thinking that's how things are.

I was reassured when I spoke to friends that other kids are similarly thoughtless but I think they are old enough now to understand that nice things are earned and should be appreciated not taken for granted. I don't expect them to start behaving like adults but a little thought would be nice when people are working bloody hard to make life pleasant for them.

I want to address this before it's too late and the new school term seems a good time to introduce some rules/routines but I'm not sure how to go about it. DD can be lovely girl but I'm worried if we don't crack down on this she is going to become a spoilt little madam who expects everything handed to her on a plate.

Mine doesn't do tantrums but is a champion sulker - I'm not sure which is worse!

I think I would truly prefer the sulking, WhyTheBigPaws. At least then I could tell her to go off to her room and sulk. At the moment she screams, cries, keeps saying 'Oh my god' , stamps on her bedroom floor, throws things in her bedroom, and slams doors really hard.

I think I'm going to speak to her head of year when she goes back to school as her behaviour overall is very bad, and no matter what boundaries we try to lay down she never learns, and I feel like I need some support.

That does sound tough to deal with, it's not like you can use time out or a naughty step with a 13 year old is it. I'm sure you've tried taking away her phone/DS/iPod/whatever's important to her and restricting where/when she can go out - that would be my first line of defence but dealing with the resulting strop is so wearing isn't it. I always vowed I would be strict but sometimes I admit I have given in because it's easier and I know in doing so I've just made things harder for myself.

I am exactly the same, BigPaws. I've given in for an easy life. We've confiscated her laptop, phone and ipod in the past at various times and she has literally screamed, cried and tantrummed until she's had them back, and after 3 days of screaming and tantrumming I've given in. As a toddler when she tantrummed she would literally go on and on and on with it and never burnt herself out like my younger two have done. She also will never reflect on bad behaviour and then apologise, she firmly believes she is in the right, even when she's done something bad.

It's funny because even having stuff taken off her or being grounded still doesn't make her think 'hold on, if I behave then I can have it back/go out' she just screams like a banshee. Even if I spell it out to her that until she does X or Y she won't get it back/ be allowed out.

She's just had a screaming tantrum right now as she wanted noodles for lunch and they took a while to cook, and she started crying and tantrumming as they took too long.

I am not surprised you feel you need help Badeducation. I am not a MH professional, but that behaviour seems to be way off the 'normal' spectrum for a 13 year old. Does she have other issues? Surely most 13 year olds would be embarrassed to behave in such an age inappropriate manner?

I am having similar problems with my dd. She is only 8 but acts like a teenager most of the time. We are ok financially and go on some trips out, especially in the hols, buy her things as needed, holiday either abroad or in the uk for 2 weeks each year. We are also generous with our time and have her friends over. She is not an only. She has 2 younger brothers. Her behaviour is getting worse as when we are out she talks as if she is spoilt even though we don't go out every weekend like some of her mates and she doesn't get things every time we go in a shop. She doesn't have a phone or a computer. She has an old ds which she got a few xmas's ago and an mp3 player for last years xmaspresent. She also likes to brag about any new stuff she gets which is one thing I really hate. I have tried banning things, sending her to her room but she just says she's not bothered. She also doesn't try hard at school, hates doing chores even tidying up the toys she has tipped all over the floor. She was a very polite helpful dd until she reached school. I just hope she will be like
that again.

'They' do say your kids are your until they go to school, then you have no chance :(

Definitely true. I feel like I am losing the battle especially during the summer. DS2 is 4 and starting school next week but he has developmental delay due to ,hearing problems. He gets so frustrated and angry sometimes but dd just thinksq it's hilarious and so pushes his buttons to get a reaction or giggles at him when he does something naughty. I have explained that he won't learn if she keeps laughing at him but she doesn't get it.

notyummy, you have summed up my thoughts exactly that her behaviour is off the normal spectrum. She's always been quirky and had strange ways at times but I've always dismissed them, as did her teachers, as she was only young, and I suppose her behaviour then was in the normal range for a child's behaviour iykwim. She never shows any embarrassment about her behaviour, on the contrary she always thinks that how she behaves is fine, and that it's us 'making a fuss'

Her main other issue seems to be lack of social skills; she says things that are very inappropriate at times, such as making loud derogatory comments about people, and she is never appreciative of anything, nor does she have anything nice to say about anyone or anything. She doesn't seem particularly bothered about seeing friends and again with her friends she will say inappropriate things, then on the other hand she seems to have no boundaries with her friends. She spent years of primary school not talking at school at all. If she sees anyone she knows in public she just blanks them. She will also do things purposely to wind up my other DCs. For example she will start arguing with the youngest about his mega bloks or train set just to cause an argument. It's like having two toddlers.

I've approached several teachers in the past as I've thought her behaviour hasn't been normal and it has affected her education, but they've always been dismissive and said she's fine. Which I've accepted, as I thought perhaps she would grow out of it, but now her behaviour at her age is making her stick out like a sore thumb,and if anything it is getting worse.

BadEducation, I'm not saying your daughter is on the autistic spectrum, but she could be.... we have many people with this condition in our family and what you just mentioned rings alarm bells for me.

Autistic spectrum disorders are often not picked up in girls until they are much older, as they tend to be able to 'cover it up' better than boys.

As I said, this may not be what's wrong, but it might be worth having a chat with a health professional about your DD.

Thank you Cailleach, that is what has been on my mind too I have to admit. Do you think perhaps I am better off speaking to the school about it first and see what they say before I go to the GP?

Might be a good idea to speak to the school too - they've probably got other children on the spectrum there anyway and might know who you could contact to see about getting an assessment; educational psychologist, maybe?

DS 17 next week, used to not want to do chores (cant say I blame him, its not my idea of fun either), however it was easily cured when dh and I stopped doing anything for him. No washing, no food, nothing. Didnt take long, plus explaining that no one finds it fun made him feel lucky he only had a few chores. Also we then did stuff together to speed things up, could he collect all the washing and get the machine on before I pegged it out. could he make the dinner (with my help) and see if his dad could tell the difference. all sorts of stuff we did together. we cleaned the floors with tea towels on our feet. Just loads of stuff. didnt take no for an answer. Do it and moan or do it and get it done. For most children I do think its a phase esp if thier parents notice and want to do something about it, all will come goodeventually.
Also something I learnt from MN is NO SCREENTIME, ie no tv, phone, laptop, blah blah. If you say no tv they go off and do something else. Try it.
Finally regarding the shopping if you do want to go, tell her 3 weeks xxx and you can go to town for her to chose 1 top (or whatever). No need for lunch, a sit down with a coffee and ice cream is fine. Maybe a day is too full on at 10? And maybe the friend is a distraction, ie what about this, I like that etc, no real focus on what she wants a top for. Playing in, going to see grandma, why does she want it?

I've raised the shopping twice a year idea today and it's not been well-received but I'll give it a go when the weather turns so probably next week then and she needs some winter stuff and see how we get on.

Also thinking about giving her regular pocket money - maybe monthly rather than weekly so she gets used to making it last - but no idea how much is reasonable. It would be for things like sweets and comics or could be added to what I'm prepared to spend on clothes, school stuff etc or saved.

May I suggest you 2 make a list together of stuff you both think she needs, before you even leave the house? And try to stick to that list.

I would love to be more spontaneous about buying toys & clothes & treats, but I found that approach made my kids a bit grasping & nagging for something on every outing.

Other threads on here about pocket money, if you want to canvass experiences & opinions. Mine get double their age (in £) every 2 months. I believe that's on the low side, but it's not contingent on doing chores. I try, somewhat ineffectively, to ban mine from spending it on food.

I think that's a very good plan lljkk, it's what I'm intending to do so just got to make the effort and stick to it!

I was thinking of £10 a month pocket money but DH doesn't think that will go very far so may need to make it a bit more.