to think this should be stopped?

[DeliaRose]

Anti-homosexuality in religion.

Surely, at least in this county, there are laws about this?

Take the Johavah's stance for example

link

This is outrageous! It gives tips on how to 'avoid homosexuality'!

There are laws against what?
I don't like the religious view on this issue, but then I don't like organised religion.
Its a fine line between allowing people to have beliefs and being offensive.

Discrimination should be stopped, but you can't tell people what to believe.

I might find their views repugnant, but unless they are trying to deny people rights based on their sexuality, they should be allowed to think what they want. I just pity them, and their sad little lives, filled with bigotry, hatred and intolerance.

'' ?Metrosexuality??a lifestyle in which men give excessive attention to themselves and particularly their appearance?has done much to blur the line between gay and straight.''

Made me lol.

Discrimination against homosexuality?

It angers me that un lawful practices are protected by religion.

Its not actual discrimination though.

As a religion they are entitled to their views. They are not giving them put a gay pride are they?

Everyone is entitled to their view, that's not illegal.

That is a religious view for religious people about dealing with something that their religious text disagrees with.
It doesn't say Gay people should be shot, or homosexuals are evil and going straight to hell.

"Granted, same-sex desires may be strongly entrenched. Be assured, though, that even deeply rooted wrong desires are not insurmountable. (1 Corinthians 9:27; Ephesians 4:22-24) Ultimately, you are in control of how you will live. (Matthew 7:13, 14; Romans 12:1, 2) And despite claims to the contrary, you can learn to control your impulses?or at least refrain from acting on them."

So this is Ok to tell a young person?

You can't stop somebody believing something.

You can try to persuade them their beliefs, in your opinion aren't right.

Or you can let them get on with their lives, and hope they let you get on with yours.

The implication that sexuality is a choice and that it should be straight and no other is a contradiction.
We used to get Watchtower through the door with illustrations of small children playing with Tigers...

DeliaRose

"Granted, same-sex desires may be strongly entrenched. Be assured, though, that even deeply rooted wrong desires are not insurmountable. (1 Corinthians 9:27; Ephesians 4:22-24) Ultimately, you are in control of how you will live. (Matthew 7:13, 14; Romans 12:1, 2) And despite claims to the contrary, you can learn to control your impulses?or at least refrain from acting on them."

So this is Ok to tell a young person?

You sound like just as much of an evangelist as they do.

If your a Jehovah's witness and you turn out to gay, you get chucked out. Acceptable.

If you have a job and you get the sack because you are gay. Unacceptable.

"You sound like just as much of an evangelist as they do."

Why is that?

Elsqueak we used to get it.
There was a picture of 'paradise' adults and children of different races all interacting gave Ng a great time in a lovely meadow.
Then there was a lion with a beach ball between its paws. Apparently 'paradise' for a lion is having a beach ball.
I thought it was hilarious.

I was brought up Catholics and there were several gay members of the church.
It can be hard to reconcile and one gay man was celibate. JW do not kick you put for bring gay.
If you want to be a JW, there is lots of things you can't do like blood tranfusions. You don't HAVE to abide by all parts to be welcomed into church, I know a JW who let their child have a transfusion. Her church was perfectly accepting of her decision. While the religion is against, they supported her decision to save her Childs life.

I dislike intensely, threads bashing religion, and Jehovas Witnesses in particular. What makes you any better than them. Are you going to march Into he kingdom hall and tell them they are wrong? Or force them to face their Gayness? Because I find all people who inflict their beliefs on others regardless of whether it's wanted, just as bad as each other.

YABU and irrational. You want to ban people's thoughts and beliefs because you don't agree with them.

I can assure you that JW will excommunicate you for being gay. Or having a child out of wedlock. Or engaging in legal, safe and enjoyable sexual acts with your spouse. Or asking too many questions.

How do you resolve the conflict between the religious freedom legislation under the human rights act? Article 9 - a right to freedom, thought, conscience and religion

And the human rights act where it states that people have a right to freedom from discrimination

And the equality act where you have the right to hold your own religion and belief and it is unlawful to discriminate against you for these - and under british law you are entitled to "practise your religion or belief, express your views and get on with your day-to-day life without experiencing threats or discrimination." and they would argue that denying them the right to believe what they believe is discriminating against them.

and the equality act where you cannot be discriminated against based on your sexuality. You cannot be treated less favourably than someone who is not gay.

It seems to me that there is an unsolvable conflict there.

A is gay. A has the right in law to not be treated less favourably or discriminated against.
B is religious. It is part of Bs religious belief that being gay is wrong. B has the right in law to practise their religion and express their views.

See the conflict?

How does the law address this?

From my standpoint: I defend their right to believe anything they jolly well like and even act on it within their own religious views among 'their own people' (for want of a better phrase.) however I do not defend them trying to force those beliefs onto non JWs!

What I always find confusing is the fact that many/most/all JW children I have known have not been allowed to attend RE lessons. Anyone know the reason for this? All it makes me think is that they are so insecure about their own faith that they don't want their kids knowi g any details about other religions as they fear they may see the cracks in their own! If its just 'not wanting them to convert' then they'd need to secure them in a bubble for them not to have 'influences'.

I'm a Christian and 100% pro gay, gay marriage etc. I remember once at a church I used to attend while at uni (I say used for a reason as didn't stay long cos they were so bigoted) someone had the gall to give a list of people who 'would not be allowed into heaven' that included homosexuals.... Well I was outraged, I actually stood up and made a declaration right then and there that if God was really like that then heaven would be hell to me and walked out!! Then the next week attended a much more accepting church. (It still had a basic view against homosexuality but not the 'they won't go to heaven' bit and were accepting of them.)

Do you have any concept, of the atrocities carried out in the name of The Catholic Church? Or The Protestant Church? Or in the name of Islam? Nobody is bashing them. Why? Why do you feel the need to pick on Jehovah's Witnesses?

Also - the bible verses they use in that article are a gross mistranslation of the original text of the bible. (my parents own a 'directly translated' bible that is as close to the original Greek text as can be done in modern English and it actually says very very little about homosexuality apart from the fact that it means you can't have children..... Which of course in those days was true!)

SOCCP yes I do!! I hoped post wasn't bashing JWs just addressing some points.

The atrocities you mention are the reason why if anyone asks if I'm religious I reply "Well I believe in god." as I don't want to be tarred with the 'religious/Christian' brush as an ashamed of all those, in my view, totally ungodly things that have been done in the name of God.

Sorry if you think it should be criminal for a "religion" to believe that homosexuality is wrong and maybe not allow someone openly practising to take part in certain rituals/activities. Then where do you stop? Is it illegal for the Masons to meet without women? Does the C of E church have to allow Devil worshippers to take communion? Does my local Conservative club have to allow Labour members in freely?

Yes a lot of what some religious groups seem hypocritical, and can be harsh/harmful to some people. But if we allow groups to form in our society, which is a fundamental principle of freedom of speech, then there is a limit to what we can and should legislate about.

Ooh totally off topic I know but...... I am a female and have been inside a functioning Masonic hall! My hubby (not a mason) was also there, as was our then 8 month old son and a load of our friends!
This was a real working Masonic hall, not a museum or anything.

Sorry, Pro, that wasn't aimed directly at you, you just got in the way!