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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should I get my dog put down?

176 replies

andypandy30 · 20/08/2012 20:05

Really don't know what to do for the best. Had our dog nine years, she is a mixed breed, nor really sure what she is a bit Spanial, she has always been lively jumping up etc.
We took her to training a few years back, it didn't really work to be honest. I have 2 ds one who is five and one 2.10.
A few years back the dog bit the next door neighbour, we were at work she got out in the rain so he tried to put her back in. The nice next door neighbour played it down but had a plaster on.
We let it go and watched her closely. She has growled at the kids a few times and nipped the eldest once when he was a toddler but the child stood on his tail accidentally. Both ds know not to be cruel to the dog and never are. Today ds tried to take a bean off the dogs plate, it was left over from his dinner and given to the dog. I heard ds scream I was washing up he was crying hard his arm was very red and swollen and has teeth marks but it didn't bleed.
Not sure what to do, everyone telling me we have had enough warnings now and next time it could be the eye.
Dog is walked everyday has massive back garden and I only work part time so it's rarely alone.
Please give me some advice sorry it's so long didn't want to drip feed

OP posts:
Ephiny · 20/08/2012 21:34

-btw I'd happily have this dog if my small house wasn't already full with elderly rescue/foster dogs that no one else wants (yes including one who's bitten me in a food-related incident!) Though if we did have a space there are others more in need, sadly I can't take in every dog where the owners just want rid now they've got kids...

SecretNutellaMedallist · 20/08/2012 21:35

How is the dog with the older kids?

nearlyawife · 20/08/2012 21:35

No, it is not the dog's fault.

However, children are worth more than dogs. Toddlers are not capable of obeying (or remembering) rules ALL the time.

If you have a dog who is quick to bite, PTS is the kindest option.
If you rehome, who's to say the dog won't be chained 24/7 to stop it biting, or smacked to stop it biting, or rehomed again and again?

andypandy30 · 20/08/2012 21:36

Doesitcome thank you
I really do feel bullied here, it's horrible to question my parenting skills I was in the same room as the dog and the child both times big open plan kitchen dining, I turned for 2 secs to wash the dishes. How can this make me a bad parent?
This board is really not a nice place as its very easy for people to gang up and bully people they don't know in RL.

OP posts:
curiousgeorgie · 20/08/2012 21:38

Nearlyawife - a dog doesn't have to be chained 24/7! If you have any doubt there are other options. (as I stated above)

curiousgeorgie · 20/08/2012 21:39

It is utterly devastating how quick people are to kill beloved dogs because of mistakes they themselves have made.

andypandy30 · 20/08/2012 21:39

For the millionth time they were not sharing food my 2 year old simply walked over a took a bean from the dogs bowl. That was it, I was in the same room washing dishes

OP posts:
curiousgeorgie · 20/08/2012 21:40

You shouldn't give your dog human food either btw.

cheesesarnie · 20/08/2012 21:40

you dont have to lie about the bitting, infact you should not lie! but phone the numbers youve been given.
having her put to sleep isnt the only option but as she is no longer safe to live with your family, the rescue places will find somewhere that is safe for him to live.

BonkeyMollocks · 20/08/2012 21:40

The B word is out in force again Hmm .

OP you posted in AIBU, about a dog being pts.

there are bound to be a few posters who think YABU. i am one of them. there are other options but from your first few posts it sounded like you did not want to be told and you had made up your mind.

cheesesarnie · 20/08/2012 21:41

agree with curious- scraps is a no no. dog food and people food.

coffeeinbed · 20/08/2012 21:42

Taking food from each other's plates is called sharing.
You seem to have made up your mind.
Good luck with that.

messtins · 20/08/2012 21:42

I don't think there is anything in your post to suggest you are not looking after the dog appropriately or giving it adequate exercise. It's not a training issue, it's a temperament one, and however many safety measures you put into place the dog has an untrustworthy temperament in certain situations and her default option is to bite, hard enough to cause damage. It's not just children - she's bitten a strange adult (the neighbour) when accidentally her space is invaded (the tail incident) and when guarding her food. In all of those situations it's natural that a dog would be wary and stressed, but her response is to bite and it sounds like that is escalating in severity with each incident. You can't arrange her life so nothing threatening ever happens to her.
If you were finding this very straightforward you would not have posted but would have already been to the vet, of course it's not an easy decision because you love the dog and she's part of your family. I don't think any of the posts blaming you for what has happened are helpful.

Tartymuffin · 20/08/2012 21:43

I have an 11 year old dog. She is partially sighted and as a pup was mis-treated by my ex (once - he hit her, I packed all my stuff and left with my beloved pooch within the hour). She is now nervy. I have spent ten years training her, but now that her sight is going she is jumpy. She has snapped in the past, when severely provoked.

I also have an eleven month old daughter.

Because I know my dog can't see things coming up at speed, and because I know she has snapped in the past I have put a LOT of thought, work and money into keeping my child AND my pooch safe from each other. Because BOTH are my responsibility.

My child has never been left alone with my dog. That's just asking for trouble. Likewise my dog eats in the kitchen ON HER OWN. She's an old lady, she doesn't want bothering whilst she eats - I have spent a lot of time teaching her that her bowl and food are mine to pick up and put down, and she will happily let me. But I still wouldn't dream of allowing my child to be anywhere near my pooch whilst she is eating. Because my child simply isn't of an age where she can understand that the dog's dinner is precisely that.... Which it is apparent your child doesn't understand either.

My child has a very large playpen - if I am not in the room with 100% attention on my child and she is awake then I put her in there. Not just to keep her away from the dog, but also to keep her safe from the myriad of other risks any home presents to an unsupervised small person. It's a sad fact that the majority of child accidents and death occur in the home. If you aren't watching them closely enough to stop the dog snapping - then what else could they get into? How often do we hear "I only turned my back for a second!" Dogs, cables, doors.... The truth is a two year old (or younger) isn't capable of understanding the concept of danger, nor of retaining "no" for more than a couple of minutes - so they should never be out of your sight around a dog or any other risk - including learning to toddle with a dog in the room.

My daughter is learning to walk - and when she is careering her V-Tech walker around the room or bombing around crawling I put the dog the other side of the gate. Absolutely NO possiblity for tail treading, running over, crashing into....

And we have a crate for the dog - that is her space, and when she is in there she is completely left alone.

On top of which I am consistently training my dog, around my child, around her toys, around the highchair - the dog can lie under it and won't pick up thrown food until she is told she can, she won't take food from a child even if it's held out.... Because I have trained her not to - and she is older than your dog.

It IS possible to remove the risks by actively considering what those risks might be, and putting in place solutions BEFORE they happen. You didn't do that. YOU left your dog outside (which is something I don't agree with if you don't also provide an appropriate shelter) and your neighbour felt they HAD to move YOUR dog because you had left it out - that's not responsible dog ownership. You LET your child step on your dog - you knew your dog had snapped before, you knew your child was unsteady - as a responsible dog owner you should have anticipated this COULD happen and prevented it before it did. You LET your child be in a position to take food from the dog's bowl, which you could (should?) have prevented.

In short - everything that has happened COULD have been prevented had YOU done things differently. And you want to kill your dog?

I get that you want to protect your children from your dog - but you also have a responsibility to protect your dog from your children. And you haven't. Dog's are lovely, but a truly responsible owner wouldn't have put the dog in any of these situations....

curiousgeorgie · 20/08/2012 21:44

"You can't arrange her life so nothing threatening ever happens to her."

Yes you can.

lovebunny · 20/08/2012 21:46

dogs that bite are put down. i remember how my gran cried when her dog had to go because the postman claimed he bit him. the dog was the softest animal ever, he just barked at bicycles.
i'm sorry andypandy30. seems to me you're being sensible (i've only read the first page) and you'll do what has to be done.

curiousgeorgie · 20/08/2012 21:47

Maybe read the thread then?

midori1999 · 20/08/2012 21:47

OP, you have a dog and you are considering killing it or rehoming it before even consulting a behaviourist? Hmm

You need to accept responsibility for this. All dogs are trainable if you bother and get the right help. When the dog first bit someone then you should have realised something needed to be done. It's not the dog's fault and it is not your son's fault. You are the adult and although you might not want to hear it, it is your fault your dog bit your son. Your child should have been much more closely supervised and never allowed to take food from the dog.

The dog's age is irrelevent to whether it can be trained or it's behaviour altered. It takes knowledge and commitment to train the dog. You can get professional help (I wouldn't recommend those who Cuebill suggested, having lived in NI myself, one of them particularly is not great at best and they are trainers, not behaviourists. This lady is APBC accredited and therefore your insurance may cover fees www.dogclasses-behaviourni.com/ However, no behaviourist has a magic wand and changing things will take time and mean you need to supervise your DC more closely.

bubalou · 20/08/2012 21:55

I have 2 dogs - Jack russells (need I say more)

Plus 1 of them is deaf - not from old age or anything she has always been deaf so sharp movements etc can make her jump.

My DS now 4 has always been very good but as he's grown up of course there has been a few small incidents. He has taken a toy before to play but 1 dog got over excited and nipped him. He once took a treat off of the other dog who whilst trying to get it back from his hand nipped him. They have never hurt him, never broken the skin and never done anything unprovoked.

Our dog both adore him and would never hurt him - if they ever even looked at him funny i would have re-homed them - DC come 1st.

I suggest doing what we did and training both the DC and the dogs on how to treat each other Smile

Tartymuffin · 20/08/2012 21:56

And I'm sorry but the "my husband works 60-70 hours a week" I don't have time thing just doesn't wash...

My husband is in the Army - and he goes away for months on end, I have returned to work part time too, so I have a child, a job, a partially sighted dog and I run the whole she-bang pretty much single-handedly for weeks/months depending on where he is and what he is doing - ALL feeds, ALL housework, ALL walks, ALL night time wake ups, ALL training - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week not just 60-70 hours a week (which sounds like BLISS to me!) Including walking my dog twice a day. I have a pushchair, I have a back carrier... I don't have any time to myself, I get up at silly o clock and go to bed late, but I chose to have a dog, then I chose to marry a man who is rarely home, then we chose to have a baby. So I do absolutely everything I can to make sure I meet the needs of those who I chose to make dependent on me.

If you want to do it you will make the time - time for an extra walk, time for training, time to consider risks and put counter-measures in place.... And if you don't want to? Well there's always the "kill the dog" option. But please don't say you haven't got time - there is always time - it's whether you WANT to spend the time doing it. So I have to train my dog once my daughter is in bed and I'd generally rather be slumped on the sofa watching mind numbing shite - but I have a responsibility to the dog (and after that to the god damn ironing).

GrannyRat · 20/08/2012 21:58

OP, we had a cocker spaniel who was food possessive, aggressive, a nightmare to walk as he'd pull like mad and wouldn't come back if he was let off his lead. He was also a loving and loyal companian.

He bit my DCs on a number of occasions and went mad one day and wouldn't let us down the stairs (past the babygate). It was like he'd had some sort of episode. We had him put on medication and had a behavioural expert come and work with him and us as a family. Nothing changed though.

Anyway, long story short we had to have him PTS on advice by the vet as he diagnosed Cocker Rage Syndrome. We contacted Spaniel Rescue who agreed having him PTS as he was too dangerous to rehome. The absolute worst day of my life so far and nine years later I still miss him terribly. But i dont regret the decision as i had to protect my family.

Good luck OP.

andypandy30 · 20/08/2012 21:58

Thanks bub. Can I ask you do you feel you are an irresponsible patent? Surely you were watching your child 24.7 and you let your dog bite your child?
I know this is nonsense btw but this is what I'm hearing here

OP posts:
andypandy30 · 20/08/2012 22:03

Tarty do you find it difficult to read? It might be because you are so busy? Maybe you need to get your eyesight checked.
Where did I say I did not have time for training? I said that I had no time for more than a walk a day a run 4 times per week plus a five mike walk with the dog. This is plenty for any dog: you have one child, good for you, you sound like superwoman.
I have 2 plus a job and still manage all the rest alone. Didn't realise it was a competition though it's just what I do. You should win a medal for being such a martyr

OP posts:
Tartymuffin · 20/08/2012 22:10

I don't think you are an irresponsible parent - I do think you aren't the most responsible dog owner. The things you are describing are all known potential risk factors for ANY dog, and the fact is ANY dog might react as yours has in those situations. As dog owners it is our responsibility to pre-empt and do everything in our power to prevent these types of situation arising. Even after your dog bit the first time you still left opportunities for the second and third instances.

Like it or not you had the opportunity to prevent every single one of these incidents. Maybe you didn't have the knowledge to do this, but part of being a responsible pet owner is undertaking appropriate research and learning about the risks and prevention thereof. If you weren't aware of these risks or how to prevent them maybe you shouldn't have got a dog.

But I really don't think the dog should be destroyed because you didn't think about all the potential risks an animal with big teeth and limited understanding might pose when it felt threatened, was hurt or had it's food taken away whilst it was eating.

For me it's the fact that you could have prevented every single one - and you're blaming the dog....

bubalou · 20/08/2012 22:15

andypandy Smile

I know what you mean. It's all my fault! I'm such an awful mum!

I am very responsible. My DS coming into the house with 2 dogs - then aged 2 and 4 was a very slow process.

Like everything we took alot of time. I don't trust ANY dog 100%. They are dogs, it is in their nature. I hear all these awful stories of children harmed by dogs & think 'why was the dog alone with the child'!

When the dogs nipped my DS I was in the room. I don't feel guilty, I couldn't have stopped it unless I had stopped DS 1st. DS knew he had done something he hadn't meant to - as did the dog as soon as he saw DS come over to me. DS cried but only from shock - he didn't mark at all.

They were cuddling each other only minutes later - as if to say sorry.

My 2 dogs are very, very good with him. They are so gently when they play - they always have been. They have only nipped on these 2 occasions when DS did something to them.

If my dogs as they get old do turn as I know dogs can - it will break my heart but I will re-home them. I will ALWAYS put DS before them. He is my priority.