to be so moved by the Tony Nicklinson case?

[Wigglewoo]

The poor man :( .. Totally sound of mind but unable to move or communicate except for moving his eyelids ... Denied the right to die.

One of the things that really moved me was how tenderly his wife was caring for him, they have been together so long and there is real unconditional love between them. The kind of love that lasts beyond everything.

So so sad.

It's men like Tony Nicklinson who are determined to do things through all the legal channels and push the envelope who will eventually get the law changed for us all in this country.

Pioneers like that, who put their own needs secondary behind changing things for the nation, who are really brave. History is peppered with Chartists, suffragettes, mandelas. Except there aren't so many people who push the limits of the law into changing laws like them.

Ultimate respect to him and his family.

I think it is awful that people are unable to decide for themselves whether to end their own lives. I would rather that myself then allow my family to have to watch me in what I can only assume to be a living nightmare. Our laws need changing, we are archaic in the way we think.

What makes me so angry/sad is that Tony Nicklinson and his family have had to have their private tragedy spread out through the media. Cameras watching him cry then his wife being asked how she feels.

All is to be trailblazer and seek permission to end his life.

The law does need to be changed and peoples dignity needs to be protected. No judge is going to make this decision at the moment, it's too public.

I don't know if anyone saw Best of Men last night, but the men who arrived at Stoke Mandeville hospital wanted to die and were expected to die. If we had assisted those men with suicide then I can't imagine how we could have justified it now. It would have seen humane at that point in time by many people. I can see why people have doubts about assisted suicide. Cleary there is no hope for recovery for Tony Nicklinson and I feel desperately sorry for him. Its something you don't want ever to have to think about but it has to be considered as a reasoned option by a separate court. My Auntie had a stroke about six months ago, wants to die. It is so hard and distressing for my uncle and cousins. But she has clearly expressed her wish. I don't think she should be denied it.

Itsjustified are you in his position. If you are not how the hell can you sit there on your sanctimonious chair and judge. You would never put an animal through that it would be cruel, a human is no different

Apparently it costs £15K to got to Dignitas.

If he wanted to commit suicide he could go to Switzerland

No he can't. To die in dignitas (even if you can afford to get there, mange to fly etc) you have to be able to give a drink to yourself - he can't do that.

I watched most of The Best of Men lovely it was a wonderful programme. I don't think it's quite the same though. The last 10 minutes (when they were talking in the boardroom) illustrated the difference between the attitudes to the patients then and how it is now. Comments like "they're cripples" (apologies for using that word, it was used in the programe) and seeing the patients in the wheelchairs being unpleasant for other people - that was the prevailing attitude towards disabled people at the time. They were expected to die because society saw no use for them.
I'm not saying everything is perfect now but people with disabilities are generally recognised as having their own rights and responsibilities. Someone like Tony Nicklinson surely has the right to decide to not put himself and his family through anymore hell and to be able to protect his family and doctors from prosecution in the event of his suicide. It should be decided on a case by case basis not a blanket ban.
I've signed the petition and shared it on my FB.

I do agree, for a person in his state, death is better than life. How long will he suffer like that? But, I just can't bring myself to agree with euthanasia. I think this is a pivotal case; if Tony Nicklinson is allowed to commit suicide how many other people will want the same, with perhaps less horrendous disabilities after him? It's not right.

It's so desperately sad. I feel so sorry for Tony Nicklinson. And his wife and daughters, they are so courageous.

I might be wrong but he asked for doctors to have the right to kill him without penalty didn't he? There are other people that have to be considered, ie the medical professionals who would be involved in ending his life. There was someone from the BMA on R4 last night saying the right decision had been made, although I didn't hear the detail of his interview.

I agree that the law should be there to protect the vulnerable. Not all people in Mr Nicklinson's position want to end their lives, but they may feel coerced or obliged to for the sake of their loved ones if it were made more common by the law allowing it. But there must be something that can be done so that vulnerable people like Mr Nicklinson don't have to suffer horribly for the 'greater good'.

I don't know what that something is. I know it's cowardly of me because somebody has to do it, but I am so glad I am not one of the people (lawmakers, judges, medical profession) who has been asked to make this decision. What a decision to have to make.

Thank you sashh - that's just what I was going to say - " you have to be able to give a drink to yourself - he can't do that. "

If I was in his position I would want the choice. And I think he should have the choice as well.

I believe cases like this should be decided on a case by case basis.
So somebody in Tony's situation could go through some sort of panel of Doctor's and possibly judges.
If I was in his situation I would want to die.

I believe that those who have life limiting illnesses have the right to die when they want to.

Tony cannot do it himself, locked in syndrome means he can't move AT ALL, how fair is it that he has no choice but to live like this until he dies 'naturally'.

My Mum has Motor Neurone Disease, she can choose to end her life when she wants to, watching her die by degrees is horrible, since November last year she has virtually lost her voice, she's due to have a PEG fitted so she can get nutrition straight into her stomach because her throat muscles are bad.

Her muscles will waste away until she can no longer lift her arms or legs, but her mind will be as active as ever, there will be a point where she will have to have a tracheostamy (?) to help her breath.

There is no cure for this horrific disease, eventually she will end up like Tony, but she will die regardless.

Why shouldn't people have the right to choose when THEY want to die?

If you are able bodied and suicidal you can end your own life, you aren't 'of sound mind' when you try.

DIGNITY is what it about.

I thought his story was deeply upsetting. I completely sympathise with his wish to die. Some woman came on the radio just after his daughter had been speaking on his behalf. I can't remember who the woman was, but she was saying something like "other people in his situation want to live - they conduct orchestras just by moving their eyes". It was beyond patronising, as if she were saying he ought to be grateful for life and do something like that. She came across as so shockingly unable to empathise in any way. He was obviously such a physical man before his stroke, that life as it is now must be unbearable for him.

The only difficulty with what he wants is that if I were a doctor, I don't know how easily I could live with administering something that would end a life. Maybe it should be family members that should be allowed to do it. It's a grey area though, and I can understand that it might be difficult to draw up a law that would be able to completely stop situations where vulnerable people might die without complete consent.

Having said that, in this particular case, it seems impossible and completely unreasonable that Tony Nicklinson is not being allowed to his wish to die.

I also have total sympathy for him and totally support his cause. I don't see much difference in his wish to die with the decisions doctors make every day to 'let' people die where further treatment would prolong a life in the short term though with no quality and much pain. In fact I saw a programme not long ago about really sick babies where decisions like this were made by families along with very caring profesionals. I'm sure there are caring doctors out there who would support Tony with his aim.

I am so sorry about your mum, caramel1. What an awful disease.

I also don't see why a law that can make so many other, far more subtle distinctions between allowed and forbidden acts, can't provide for a situation where a person of sound mind but no quality of life can't ask for help to end their suffering.

Agree that he should have the right to choose to die.
His existence is clearly a living hell.
To compare it with other situations eg mental illness /severe depression is missing the point that TN will not get better. He will continue to exist like this until he dies; there is no hope of anything else.

To see him sobbing and distressed at the ruling was heart breaking.

I do believe legislation will change in time, but it will be too late for TN and others like him. It's so important that this debate is aired fully and intelligently, because that's the only way that things will shift.

I think at some point in the future (100 yrs? 200 yrs?) people will look back and see it as inhumane that these situations were allowed, just as we look back in history and cannot believe things which happened.

So sorry about your mum, caramel. I think MND is the cruellest disease there is.

One of the sad ironies of the law as it stands is that if you have a terrible wasting disease and want the option to kill yourself, you have to do it while you are still healthy enough to be able to do it yourself, unaided.

Our right to life is our most important right as a human. Yet a right to life implies that we also have a right to die. It is barbaric that we will not allow an animal to suffer such a fate yet people like Tony Nicklinson need to endure a living hell till their last breath.

Suicide isn?t illegal, yet assisting suicide is. I don?t see the logic in how helping someone to do something legal can be considered illegal when consent has been recorded. If it were a loved one of mine in this position I would be prepared to help them die and then face the consequences of my actions.

But he could commit suicide if they let him - Prof Hawkins has equipment that can read blinks for example so this could be set to provide an IV of the required drugs that Mr Nicholson could set off himself despite his condition?

The irony is that the judge has the right to end his own life and is basically saying, "You have the right to end your own life, ooops you can't, well, you'll have to stay alive then, won't you?" It's disgraceful.

Absolutely harrowing circumstances but I think the judgment was the right one. For the judge to decide that assisted suicide was legal would breach the separation of powers and go beyond his legal remit.

it's a very complicated subject and nowhere near as easy peasy as some of the arguments put across here. It's a political can of worms. It's open to abuse. That said, I do support it. But only with incredibly strict regulations and procedures.
I think Tony Nicklinson is incredibly brave. I thought he was unable to travel to Dignitas to end his life, but according to newspaper reports today, he can. But doesn't want to. Because it's very expensive and he doesn't want to die in a flat on an industrial estate. So he still has options. I'd be interested in knowing what the Dignitas thing costs, I believe the patient usually travels in a private plane? I assume it's all totally non profit making? I'm sure, given the publicity in the press, that if it's just a financial consideration, someone can find the money for them, or raise some. But I agree that the law does need to be changed.