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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Miriam Stoppard is an idiot who should not be allowed to spout this rubbish about bf

318 replies

50shadesofslapntickle · 14/08/2012 17:57

Some of my La Leche League friends have just shown me this and I am totally surprised that this supposed 'doctor' can spout this crap in a national newspaper?!

www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/when-should-you-stop-breast-feeding-1259599

And then we discover she has links to Nestle... what a surprise...

boycottnestle.blogspot.co.uk/2008/02/nestle-panic-miriam-stoppard.html

Miriam Stoppard you should be ashamed of yourself for writing this totally innacurate rubbish.

OP posts:
SirBoobAlot · 16/08/2012 09:16

Moomins i think people telling you their horror stories / that people hate doing it is as bad as people giving you their "I was in labour for 300 hours!" stories when you're expectant. Breastfeeding is normal and natural, and in most cases totally easy. When its not easy, people should be encouraged to seek out the help they need to fix things, not told "Well formula is just as good". Because very often that's not actually what the mum wants to hear, either.

And no one mentioned a health scenario. Facing that - surely the health benefits for baby are enough for people to just give it a go, for goodness sakes? I have three chronic health conditions and have so far done two years eight months because its best for my son.

EasilyBored · 16/08/2012 09:18

As long as your choice isn't based on incorrect information (and I'm in no way saying the article from MS isn't crap and misleading and generally dire), I honestly think that any choice a woman makes on the issue (be it down to health or just personal preference) is legitimate and people should just leave it with the 'it's best for baby' judgyness.

KittyFane1 · 16/08/2012 09:19

An opinion is an opinion.

Many people on here hold an opinion In the same way that MS holds an opinion. Who says your way is right for all mothers/DC? Who says her way is right for all mothers/DC?

Neither of you can claim to know what is best for an individual mother/child without knowing them intimately.

RachelWalsh · 16/08/2012 09:22

Where did she mention health? She said "if she doesn't like it".

I do lots of things I don't particularly like for my children. I'd rather sleep through the night every night but my children need me to wake up so I do it. I don't like changing shitty toddler nappies or wiping bums but I still do it because amazingly - motherhood isn't all about me and what I "like".

Sometimes breastfeeding is a "true pleasure", sometimes it's a bit of a pain in the arse, pretty much like every other aspect of parenting IME. Should we only be expected to do the bits of parenting that are always a true pleasure then? which bits are those?

EasilyBored · 16/08/2012 09:23

I never met anyone who said 'well, just use formula'. Every single person I talked to told me to just do what was best for both of us. I would actively encourage my friends to give BF a go, and stick it out for at least 6-8 weeks even if they hate it (unless there were actual problems that needed sorting), but this whole '6 months is a piddling amount' thing is just demoralising and depressing. Any breastmilk is better than none, and formula isn't rat poison.

TenaciousOne · 16/08/2012 09:24

She's changed her opinion as well there is an article in the guardian from 2005 I think where she has a completely different opinion.

I really don't know why these threads descend into personal anecdotes where mothers who breast feed for longer are made to feel bad because they've breastfed and somebody else couldn't. Here goes my ancedote though; DS is 13months and still breastfeeds all night long, I'd love to cut back but I can't cope with the screaming, if anybody but me touches him during the night he screams for hours on end. He NEEDS the milk, he can't drink cows milk(allergy) and won't take a bottle so hearing I should have just forced the bottle from 4 months isn't helpful as we tried, I left him with family members to try and get him to take a bottle.

CecilyP · 16/08/2012 09:24

I doubt very much anyone who is bf and enjoying it will stop at 4-6 months because of anything ms says.

Exactly; why would you? If you stopped, you couldn't go straight onto all solids, you would have to start using bottles, and I can't see why anyone would want to do that if BF is working well for them.

As for "no one should be able to interfere", well the article makes me feel that MS is interfering and judging me for feeding DS until 21mo.

But why would you care? She is a tabloid journalist. She may have practised as a doctor once - a long time ago - and even doctors are not immune to the social mores of their time.

EasilyBored · 16/08/2012 09:25

There is a difference between doing something you don't particularly like (changing nappies and getting up in the night), that have to be done, and doing something you hate and find damaging to your relationship with your baby and your mental health, when there is a perfectly good alternative.

KittyFane1 · 16/08/2012 09:25

So a mother who doesn't breast feed and didn't even attempt to breast feed at birth is judged as...?

EasilyBored · 16/08/2012 09:29

Kitty, to me, as long as the woman had all the information, and her choice was't based on a load of myths and rumours about BF, then I wouldn't judge. If you have personal reasons for not wanting to BF, then people need to respect that.

SESthebrave · 16/08/2012 09:31

CecilyP - it's the fact that she says "no one should be able to interfere" but that is exactly what her article is doing.

Also, yes I shouldn't care if the article makes me feel judged, but it's human nature not to want to be judged negatively about decisions we make, including how long to BF for, be that for 6 days, 6 months or 6 years.

KittyFane1 · 16/08/2012 09:33

Easily I agree with your post. :)
We are all different.

RachelWalsh · 16/08/2012 09:35

She didn't talk about people hating it and it damaging their mental health. She said it was a catastrophe for a mother to have to do something she didn't like. It isn't.

I suppose it depends how you define a "perfectly good alternative". Formula is an alternative certainly. I don't think "perfectly good" is accurate since it implies "as good as" which formula isn't. That's not an opinion, that's fact.

EasilyBored · 16/08/2012 09:41

Fine, it's a perfectly good enough alternative.

Moominsarescary · 16/08/2012 09:44

sirboob good for you, however not everyone just wants to give it a go. That's their choice. I didn't even attempt to breast feed ds1, I didn't want to. That's my choice and I don't care what people think about it.

sudaname · 16/08/2012 10:57

I breastfed both my DCs - over thirty years ago, mid seventies and l do remember it being encouraged at the time, l certainly dont remember being discouraged put it that way. My eldest stopped at 6 mths, when l started giving her solids and she wasnt interested after that and l vaguely remember (well l am an old gimmer) being told that was the 'important' time - the first 6 months - so not to worry.

My DC2,( late seventies) had to stop at about 6 weeks as l was admitted to hospital for a couple of weeks and in their wisdom they put me on a normal ward, baby stayed at home and H at the time had to take home expressed milk for him. Didnt work out and l got mastitus and was in agony plus was distraught at being seperated from baby DS too , got in a right old state.

There was a brand spanking new mother and baby unit next door that had been opened six months previously , but oh no they put me on a womens post surgical ward full of old ladies, ingrowing toenail surgery etc. There was no reason l couldnt have gone on mother and baby unit as l didnt have any surgery, just obs really. A porter told me 'Oh they never use that it's like they want to keep it for show' Confused But they wouldnt budge despite our protests and all the physical and psychological problems l was having from being seperated from my baby. When l got home l tried to resume feeding him but couldnt seem to supply enough and was very uncomfortable anyway so gave up. So not a very good pro-breastfeeding experience with my 2nd DC but a good one with my first. Plus l was very young and not so assertive - l wouldnt have let the former happen now.

l remember MS being around a lot at the time and setting quite a lot of store by her. As others have said, lets hope young mums today take her with a pinch of salt. l think young people today do though, they question even the 'professionals' more than my generation did - and so they should it seems.

I dont agree with her about the sling being extreme ! , the third world thing is ..well Confused you carry on BF for economic reasons surely, not stop ? Plus the thing about weaning at 4 months to get more iron into baby sounds a bit dodgy and more to do with her Nestle connection.

The only thing l agree with her is about the child standing on a chair to BF (four or six yrs old ?) helping himself when required. Sorry if that offends anyone but l just felt uncomfortable at that picture and a womans body still being at the behest and demand of an older child, no idea why, but each to their own. I remember viewing a house with my exh in the nineties and the owners were a young family. The mother, had a young baby and was holding an older toddler about 4yrs old and all the while we were talking the boy kept sliding his hand down her top to get at her breast and then just fumbling about with it under her blouse. Not sure if she was still BFing him aswell. She didnt attempt to stop him or put him down but she did look quite irritated by this and worn out tbh and kept fastening her button back up when he took his hand out. l couldnt help but think , take back some ownership of your own body woman. My then H said later he didnt know where to look he found it embarrassing but he was a knob.

KittyFane1 · 16/08/2012 11:18

RachelWalsh I suppose it depends how you define a "perfectly good alternative".Formula is an alternative certainly. I don't think "perfectly good" is accurate since it implies "as good as" which formula isn't. That's not an opinion, that's fact.
This is a narrow minded take/spin on what is said by professionals re. breast milk being the best option. Of course we all want to have a straightforward pregnancy, labour and be able to BF our DC so that they are well fed and thrive but guess what? Life doesn't always go to plan.
By peddling 'facts' in this way you are alienating a whole group of women who for reasons which are non of your business entirely their own cannot or do not wish to BF.
BF your DC until they are 20 for all I care but never tell another woman what is best for them and their DC.
Off the topic but just a thought...
It's also a fact that a blood transfusion is and alternative to your own blood when one cannot produce enough of one's own. A bloody good alternative.

SirBoobAlot · 16/08/2012 15:32

Kitty formula isn't the same as a blood transfusion, though, is it? Hmm Surely a closer comparison using your example would be donor milk.

I agree no mum should be made to feel bad about her choice - but at the same time no other people should be made to feel bad about pointing out that the option they chose was factually inferior. If you've made your choice based on all the information, and still decided to bottle feed, then you have no right to get arsey when the benefits of breastfeeding are pointed out.

Moominsarescary · 16/08/2012 16:14

But why would you feel the need to point that out? Why do you care if someone else made an 'inferior' feeding choice to you?

Help people who want to bf snd are struggling by all means but why feel the need to tell someone who has chosen to ff how much more wonderful your choice is. I find it a bit odd tbh, I wouldn't dream of telling my friends all the benefits of bf if I knew they had decided against it.

iggi777 · 16/08/2012 16:27

"Never tell another woman what is best for them and their DC". Isn't that a large part of what mumsnet is about? We'd have to remove all the carseat threads, dummy ones, controlled crying ones, kids-alone-in-a-hotel room ones and playing-grand-theft-auto-when-youre-10 ones.

I'd say there is less room for debate as to whether bm is better than f than in any of my other examples.

Nancy66 · 16/08/2012 16:33

Any thread about BF always ends up in the same old bunfight with the same old bores trotting out their facts, links and pie charts.

Moominsarescary · 16/08/2012 16:47

I think a lot of what mumsnet is about would be support and advice so if someone asks about carseats, controlled crying or if they are ok to leave their kids alone in a hotel room

That's a little different from telling someone what is best for them, especially if they haven't asked for your opinion and have allready made different choices.

Moominsarescary · 16/08/2012 16:55

For some reason I didn't finish my sentence there Hmm

Carseats, controlled crying etc they are asking for advice so it's ok to give your opinion\ advice

camaleon · 16/08/2012 17:10

There is quite a solid body of evidence about the benefits of feeding with your own species' milk (applies to other mammals as well). Humans have managed to create suitable milk for babies from cows' milk. However, it seems that the 'perfect' milk would be breast milk.
It also appears that children need milk for a healthy development until at least the age of 2. Therefore if we aim at 'perfection' the best is to bf at least until that time.
Most of us have lower than perfection standards and feed our kids things that are not always perfect sometimes because we cannot do otherwise and sometimes because we do not want to.
I do not understand the fights over this. It would be better not to ever give them crips i guess, but you do not see this kind of threads with many other feeding topics.
AS for this MS woman she clearly is no expert whatsoever and she speaks bs.

Laikaloo · 16/08/2012 17:36

Kittyfane1 you are absolutely right!