Miriam Stoppard is an idiot who should not be allowed to spout this rubbish about bf

[50shadesofslapntickle]

Some of my La Leche League friends have just shown me this and I am totally surprised that this supposed 'doctor' can spout this crap in a national newspaper?!

www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/when-should-you-stop-breast-feeding-1259599

And then we discover she has links to Nestle... what a surprise...

boycottnestle.blogspot.co.uk/2008/02/nestle-panic-miriam-stoppard.html

Miriam Stoppard you should be ashamed of yourself for writing this totally innacurate rubbish.

Encouraging someone to stop at 4 months (or whenever teeth arrive) instead of 2 years can't be considered anything other than discouraging bf.
A poster has already said her mil told her the advice had changed, based just on reading this article - it does matter.

The whole "breastfeeding is only ideal in a developing country" bollocks makes me incredibly angry and sad. Firstly, because its utter crap cycled around by Nestle et all. And secondly because its ironic in some way, as in the developing world, where breastfeeding rates are higher, and children are fed for a longer time, the rates of the conditions we suffer from almost chronically in developed countries are so much lower.

And yet some people will refuse to accept there is a coloration between that and breast milk because "my child was formula fed and is fine". Just like "I smacked my child and they're fine". "I let me child cry it out and they're fine". "I let my children play around the corner and they're fine." Anecdotes don't balance out endless scientific research.

Please can someone explain the teeth = weaning thing to me?

So once you get teeth on, you're supposed to dump species-specific milk, and move onto another species' milk? Cow's milk? Or will any other species do, as long as it's not human breast milk? Hamster milk? Dolphin milk? Or must it be Nestlé cow's milk?

Formula's been around for - what? - 100 years, max? So what did people do before that when teeth came in? Just give their babies any milk, as long as it wasn't human breast milk? Because as we all know, one MUST be weaned off human breast milk as soon as teeth come in, mustn't one??

Ludicrous, illogical, and irrational.

Sirboob how Silly to compare smacking with ff, how horrid. I just hope there aren't any vulnerable women who are struggling with bf on here, I would strongly discourage them from reading this thread.

Not at all what I meant, Pig. What I was trying to say is that people always use the "Well I did X and my child is fine" line. No direct comparison between formula and smacking.

Historically, formula milk was life saving. Before formula a woman who couldn't feed would pay for a wet nurse (rich), infant fed by other women with babies, give the child cows milk or goats milk (dangerous) or be unable to feed and child would not survive.
Why can't some posters accept that not all women can BF?
What is so difficult to understand?
Why witter on about the inferiority of formula? It Is unbearable.

Nobody is comparing smacking or smoking with formula feeding.

Obviously the comparison being drawn is just too intricate for some people to get their brains around.

The point is about the arguments people use to justify their behaviour: not the behaviour itself...............l

Kitty some people (not many) on the thread are still trying to debate the MS article. She is not talking at all about how formula helps women who can't bf. She is trying to make women feel bf is good, but as long as you don't "take it too far" and not stop at what she (erroneously) views as the right time.
Of course people are put in the position of defending the advantages of breastmilk, as there are multi-million pound companies putting it under attack whenever they can.

Iggi agree that these threads always go off on a tangent.
As for MS, she has a view and her view is valid.
Why people start screeching about her undermining BF I really don't understand.
As I said earlier, BF for a few days, months, years or not at all.
A woman's choice is her own. MS is entitled to her opinion and some people will agree with her, some people won't.

It's just her opinion, anyone with some common sense can use google and check out NICE, WHO or the office of national statistics.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, not just those who believe inextended bf.
My mum thinks it's time I swapped ds3s (17 months) night bottle of milk for a cup. So what, I just tell her when he's ready or when I decide enough is enough.

The point is, Kitty, she works for a company that do all they can to undermine breastfeeding, and she is using her title of "Doctor" to encourage that. Surely you can see how that is a conflict of interest? If it wasn't breastfeeding, but something else, more hackles would be raised.

i don't think she's directly comparing any of those things, just that anecdotal 'my baby was fine after i did x' doesn't mean anything really.

also no one ever says that bf is magic or guarantees health, just that chances of avoiding certain illnesses for baby and mum are increased the more you bf.

sorry for calling you she sirboob

I've been called worse, Jaggy

what irks me is the way that formula is described as 'artificial milk'. This is exactly the way my HV described it when I was forced to top up my two eldest daughters until my milk came in. It takes a week for my milk to come in, which is more common than you realise.

I feel sick at the fact that I ignored my maternal instincts and latched dd1 on to an empty breast hour after hour, when she was starving hungry. On the second day in hospital, a midwife gently suggested some formula and the poor little thing slept for the first time since she was born. She was hysterical, screaming and sobbing. I had very little colostrum. The hospital midwives took turns squeezing my nips to get some out to no avail. (oh the dignity of that) When my milk did come in, a whole week later, I happily and successfully breastfed her (exclusively) for over a year. I believe the problem with the very low breastfeeding rates is the total lack of honesty.

Breastfeeding is fucking hard for many many women and not many discuss that at the antenatal classes. Not honestly anyway. Every single woman I know had very little colostrum and had a very upset baby for the first few days until the milk came in. When you've just given birth and are more tired than you've ever been, physically and mentally.. the last thing you need is a baby who screams 24/7 for lack of sustenance. I expected baby born, latch baby on, away we go. Didn't happen. Luckily the second and third time around I didn't treat formula like poison. It isn't poison. It's a perfectly satisfactory alternative to breastfeeding. Not as good, yes. But not bad for baby.

My child is fine comments mean something to the parent of that child, it probably means something to those parents who really wanted to bf but for whatever reason can't.

It's not helpful to those parents to constantly have comments thrown at them about the benefits when there is nothing they can do about it. Comments that ff children are not as healthy are untrue and a bit spiteful .

That's why threads about bf/ff should be in the bf/ff topic and people should stick to giving advice to those who ask for it.

I don't know why women feel the need to constantly put down and try to make other women who have made different choices to themselves feel bad.

As for the I don't understand why some people don't even try to bf, why do you have to understand? It's non of your business.

I don't know why women feel the need to constantly put down and try to make other women who have made different choices to themselves feel bad.

That works both ways.

"Eeew, why are you still feeding that child?"
"I couldn't do that"
"I want my body back"
"It's disgusting"
etc etc etc.

Anyway, no one can make you feel bad - only you can do that to yourself.

"mustn't talk about the benefits of bf-ing incase it upsets someone"

blah blah blah.

I guess they are right. Not all children who are ff are going to end up sick or in hospital as a result of it. Yes there are risks associated with giving formula, if there are no other alternatives that are easily available a pare rent has to do what they have to do. I try and express regularly throught out the day but don't make enough for ds to survive on so have to supplement with formula as there is no other alternative or ds will be undernourished. It's a risk I have to take I try to be as clean as possible

sirboob: The point is, Kitty, she works for a company that do all they can to undermine breastfeeding, and she is using her title of "Doctor" to encourage that. Surely you can see how that is a conflict of interest? If it wasn't breastfeeding, but something else, more hackles would be raised.
She works for the media, that is her job. Propaganda of any kind is controversial. Of course there is a conflict of interest.
For some women this article will be a godsend. Permission from an albeit dubious doctor to move a baby onto a different method of feeding when many others are chipping away with the breast is best argument, fuelling guilt and the feeling of not being a good enough mum.
For those who wish to continue BF, they can and will.
Women are not sheep but need to be given choice. As far as I can see, she is offering a choice whatever her motives.

Yes it does work both ways. I don't agree with feeding past toddlerhood but that's my opinion which I would keep to myself and not tell any woman whobwas still feeding their 6 year old

soup: "Eeew, why are you still feeding that child?" "I couldn't do that" "I want my body back" "It's disgusting" etc etc etc.

Mostly valid opinions but women could often shut up and keep them to themselves.

XPost piglet

Lowfat (love your screen name, btw!) I'm sorry you feel that way, and it took a huge amount of determination for to to persevere the way you did. But it is artificial. Its not there as an insult but as a fact. My son would lead a healthier, more active lifestyle if I could run around with him instead of hobbling on a stick. I don't like it, but its true. Doesn't mean that I should get upset each time I see information about exercising with my child.

Soup well put, as ever.