to think that as an experienced midwife I should earn more than a window cleaner?

[whatinthewhatnow]

My mum's window cleaner charges £18 for an hour's work. I get £17. Does society really value window cleaners more than midwives?

In no way showing off, and this rarely happens, but I did dramatically save a teeny life on wednesday. It was really fricking scary. I work so hard, my women seem to really like me and I really do try so hard for them. I feel totally undervalued and stressed and I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it, for £17 a bloody hour. FFS. .

Anybody can get punched in the face by anybody regardless of what their job is.
The opening poster tried to get sympathy for doing a hard job. Now it is not that her job is not hard as such, but it's not that bloody harder than the majority of other people's jobs in the real world.

As benidict says plenty of BNFs lying around, Meds can cause side effects, the mw has to be aware of these so they know what to look out for.

Try being a teacher and have a class of unruly children (where you have to be on guard for numerous reasons), or a cleaner who gets up at 4am and works for 10 hours on minimum wage or a prostitute who risks their life every time they do a job, or a firefighter who really does put their life on the line, or a company director responsible for her staff...I could go on.

Yet the opening poster is so superior but does not even grasp the basics of being a self-employed person. Thank god, the average mumsnetter does understand how self-employment works.

Yes 2nd opinions are always valuable. However final decisions regarding midwifery judgements will have a midwife who takes sole responsibility as autonomous practitioners. The discharges I have undertaken this week have my name on them and anyone I have consulted for their expertise will be there as someone I consulted. I ultimately carry the responsibility for signing to say, for example, ok go home. I feel it is safe for you to do so.

I think it's a cultural thing to do with midwifery. Can't really speak for nursing. Friends in very responsible Jobs do not seem to carry as much autonomous responsibility. Perhaps because much if what we do is acute and relates to acute services.

It doesn't matter what the doctor prescribes, if I give it and it's wrong then the question asked would not be 'Why did Dr X get the dosage/drug wrong' but 'Why did Benedict give that drug without checking it was correct?'

sorry cant do the smileys but am at that!

Oooh, BenedictsCumberbitch, I do hope you don't speak to the pregnant women under your care like that.

Still, though, you do know more than a qualified medical doctor who has trained for, what, 7 years or so an' all.

Being self employed doesn't mean you have a harder more dangerous job than someone who is employed.

Nurses are more likely to be attacked at work than police officers, fire fighters and teachers

The reason I don't work a a cleaner or hca on minimum wage anymore is because trained to be a nurse and have far more responsibly and accountability than I did before.

As for prostitution, it's illegal and so policy's cant be put in place to make it safer. Now if it were to be legalised it might be different

Midwifery is a risky profession because they are at risk of needlestick injuries so may be infected with the HIV virus, Hep etc.

Yes it's true about midwives getting into trouble for a drs mistake. I once gave a woman prostin gel for induction, she had been seen by a dr who decided to induce her, he had prescribed it, she came in the next day for induction. I gave her the gel at which point she mentioned a previous section. You're not supposed to give gel to previous section women. I was in lots of trouble.

Another time I gave a box of medicine to a woman that came from pharmacy, for her, sealed in a bag with her name on the bag. It was the wrong meds in the bag. They tried telling me off for that as well.

And yes I'd say I do know more than a lot of the drs. They train for 5 years btw, not 7. I think they spend a month on obs and gynae, they need to see ten deliveries. So a newly qualified midwife will have spent three years on obs and gynae and a new dr a matter of weeks. Obviously they know more aout a wide range of medical conditions but not obstetrics.

I've had SHOs ask me if that was a cervix they were seeing on speculum, that's after I've had to show them how to do a speculum. I've had to tell them what dosage of drugs to write. Last week I took am sho to see if a woman with a bad tear was fit for discharge. She was two days postnatal, he asked me when she would be allowed to start mobilising. Had to explain that she'd been out of bed for two days. He said that she looked well so could go home. I had to ask her all the questions he should have asked about flatus, bowel movements, continence, etc. junior drs generally can't interpret a ctg. I've had registrars not know what to do in a bad shoulder dystocia.

By the way, I did pay a window cleaner in richer days and don't begrudge him a penny of it. Good luck to him. I do get a bit down hearted by peoples perception of the job I do. Although I think our nmc should take a more active role in telling the U.K. what it is their registrants actually do.

As to our rate of pay, I think it's on the low side. I think s little more would be justified, perhaps payment for role increases like gps get. For example some midwives do newborn paed checks to facilitate quick discharges for women who want thidt. It's a module at masters level and it gets you more tasks, mote responsibility for no gain other than satisfaction. Which it is, very satisfying. However, surely most professions would receive even token remuneration for extraroles undertaken. The training is often free though, do that is a good thing.

Although paid for by ha as clearly midwives doing paed checks is way cheaper than des doing them.

Gosh I sound bitter. I'm not honestly!

Ahem

I've had my first deletion.

Hey Ho. It was worth it.

And yes shecot in some circumstances I do know more than some of the doctors working alongside me. That's just a fact. Particularly at this time of year.

Eh? What's up? Have we broken guidelines?

What do you think training to be a dr means you walk into a hospital ward and know everything about the meds and equipment used. Ok then

benidict how long do you train as a doctor before they let you loose on patients and you are able to prescribe?

5 years medical training. Tough.going it is too!

viva pregnancy notes show previous sections don't they? mine certainly did! How come that wasn't down on the paperwork already?

I'm sure there are loads of fantastic midwives out there but op's post just confirms my experience that there are far too many that think they know best (and deserve more) too many friends and I have had terrible experiences in labour due to midwives calling the shots as they saw fit , not listening to their patients and refusing to seek consultant help. Maybe a large dose of humility should be included in their training.

I'm sure it is but most doctors I know will admit that they don't know it all straight away and a mw with years of experiance on the ward probably knows more

More midwife/nurse/Nhs bashing.....awesome

shecot do you mean to sound so rude?

posted too soon, a mw with years on the ward probably knows more in the beginning

nokid mine was on my pregnancy records, the SHO still missed it.

The public perception is that consultant level doctors are the ones making all the decisions on the wards, delivery suite etc. They aren't there is rarely a consultant on site overnight, at weekends etc. Decisions are made by registrars and SHO's all the time, who often make these decisions not unilaterally but in conjunction with the staff who are actually caring for the woman.

I think the very safest practitioners will always remind themselves and everyone they don't know everything. It all changes so often that you have to constantly update and read and read and read anyway.

I've been knocking about for years and I don't know everything. Although I've learnt a lot about human nature. Drip stands and breaking glass vials continues to challenge me.

Doctors and nurses are human, people make mistakes. That is why it's important that they all work togeather so the patient receives the best care possible.

Some nurses/ doctors/ mw are crap. The majority arnt and work hard to help those in their care