AIBU to think everyone has an NHS horror story?

[corygal]

Because I have, and he died. Went from ok to dead in 3 days. Violently. In hospital. The details are so simple, and so distinctive, that I can't out them on yer interweb. But at the inquest the doctors lied. Then lied again in court, as it happens, so no one can talk about it even 5 yrs on as it's still doing the court rounds.

So what has happened to you and the people you know? I'm posting because the expression 'everyone makes mistakes, even dedicated NHS staff' on a current thread has made my teeth itch.

I agree maples but this is not the cornerstone of the NHS and doesn't just happen within the NHS.

My dad had the same issues you mention above, both with drugs and treatment times and he lives abroad.

When I was 17, my mum went into hospital to have minor key hole surgery to remove some gall stones. She had some scans done on her gall bladder before she went in for the op. Anyway, they made some mistakes during the op, she ended up on a ward being IV fed and fitted with a catheter. Later scans showed she had 2 ducts instead of one on her gall bladder which should have been picked up in her pre-op scan. She had to have 3 further ops to completely remove her gall bladder (which wasn't the intended surgery for her) and to also correct the mistakes they had made during her first op.

In 6 weeks she went from being a robust 12.5 stone lady to a 7.5 stone shadow of her formal self. All food that went in came straight out, she would cry when myself, my brother (15 at the time) and my sister (9 at the time) left her every evening because she thought she was going to die. She was finally allowed home after 8 weeks in there and it took her a long to mentally get over it.

*former not formal.

I'm very sorry for your loss Cory. In an objective answer to your question, however:

I'm happy to say I've experienced no real NHS horror story, and on the contrary, have many NHS anecdotes about hospitals which have saved the lives of loved ones, including both my parents in dramatic situations which needed intensive care and long, complex operations. The NHS provided them with good after-care that enabled them to make full recoveries and return to full-time work. The real cost of their treatment, if paid privately, would have crippled my family.

My grandparents have also all received life-saving and enhancing treatment and operations, although they have suffered from poor nursing care on rehab wards because of shortage of staff. Generally it seems - for the elderly at least - that the initial operations/blood transfusions/emergency treatment are great and effective, but the recovery/rehab treatment is lacking. For our family our elderly members have always been better off recovering in their own homes with visits from district nurses, wheels on meals and bags of family support (less infections, home comforts, quieter and more conducive to rest).

Not horror stories as such, but a typical bad example might be my sick and disabled grandfather being left uncomfortable in a hospital armchair for several hours, because of a shortage of nurses to put him back into the bed. However, I feel for the elderly who don't have family members to look after them and therefore no choice of recovering at home.

The one time I've given birth was great, the hospital facilities and staff couldn't be faulted, as was the post-birth midwife service I had at home. During pregnancy I found all of the relevant hospital appointments - scans, blood tests, consultants - to be efficient and satisfactory.

My poor experiences are almost universally with GPs rather than hospitals: a family history of inattentive GPs not making several serious diagnoses for family members, over a period of months to years, severely risking their lives. Or GPs not being open to trying new, updated treatments for family members with a chronic health issue.

I have been lucky enough to have had NHS dentists in the past, and that was great.

I think 'horror stories' is a big of a strong term for me when it comes to the NHS. The NHS is too big and too varied - by region, by sector, by Trust, by department - for even one person to cast a 'positive or negative' judgement on it.

I must say I was moved by Danny Boyle's tribute to the NHS in the Olympics Opening Ceremony, and, as someone who has lived in and experienced healthcare in many different places around the world, from basic developing world countries to superpowers to small and affluent European States, I value our flawed-but-indiscriminatory NHS more today than ever before, and I would fight for its existence, if I knew how!
From the cradle to the grave, they are there for us...

Sorry for you loss. I have had good and bad experiences.
Sister died from cancer only found at her post mortom.
Mum died following a bleed on brain which was not diagnosed at local hospital. Ended up suffering for hours until admitted to a larger hospital where it was discovered. Sure fall and her many previous falls were due to a heart condition which went undiagnosed for too long. By the time they diagnosed it and did tests etc she was too weak to be operated on.
However, at least they saved my daughter who became distressed in labour.

As a doctor I work almost exclusively within the NHS. I know the weaknesses and where cover is stretched.

I also have family and then I see first hand the problems that real people suffer.

Horror stories can be multifaceted - diagnoses can be difficult to make, there are waiting times for tests (and in a stretched system with diminishing funding this is only going to get worse). To some extent some of these issues are unsolvable. Rare and unusual diseases will always get thought of after common things although there is consultation ongoing about how to manage this large but diverse group of conditions. Sometimes the time taken to exclude the common stuff will make the rare stuff more difficult to diagnose.

However, where we can really improve is on communication and reacting to appropriate information - several family members have had problems with pressure sores during inpatient stays - one has a history which makes it likely and despite it being reiterated several times by articulate family members there was a great deal of reluctance to order the pressure relieving mattress until a family member basically told one of the nurses that we would hold them accountable if the request for a proper pressure area assessment (which should be done routinely on admission) was not carried out. We knew that such an assessment would show the need for special skin care measures.

This horrifies me on many levels: one the fact that it appears only articulate families get good care; two, that ward staff essentially need to be intimidated; three, that despite multi million pound IT systems essential known information still regularly gets lost.

I despair. What happens to the elderly, confused and solitary patients who don't have 3 other adults, 2 of whom have a working knowledge of the system, to advocate for them.

Staffing levels remain a problem. Well written complaints although very, very stressful for staff members (please don't underestimate this) can be helpful as sometimes ward managers, clinical directors have been campaigning for more resources to be told repeatedly that there is "no need". A few complaints caused by the issues can cause change.

Communication is also a key issue. In this increasingly technical world the information that needs to be communicated is complex. Misunderstandings happen. A family member is currently convinced that one of my colleagues poor care caused his wife to develop dementia. It is only because of MY expertise that he is getting the explanations he needs that this is not the case (and the NHS isn't getting the adverse publicity associated with such an unfounded claim). In cases like this there is a real problem with temporal linkage of events and causation. If you don't understand (or have it explained to you) that significant illness is associated with deterioration in cognitive function in the elderly it it easy to fingerprint at the person you perceive to be the cause.

I am sorry this is long. Be assured that there are many clinicians like me who care passionately about patient care and developing safe systems. Adverse outcomes do genuinely sadden teams (although they may not always show that to patients for a variety of reasons). Improvement is happening and lastly patient safety/ care quality issues are not restricted just to the NHS. All major healthcare systems suffer (even the much vaunted US system).

In some areas the NHS leads the way in trying to address the issues in others we are playing catch up.

However, when I work tonight I will be delivering the same care to the most deprived and the most affluent and I think that is something as a society we should be rightly proud of. The NHS cannot fix other inequalities but it can ensure that everyone gets basic healthcare without fear of the costs.

O yes and when my 80 year old mother was in hospital she was disgusted at the way nurses/aux treated a more vulnerable patient. My mum dispite being in for pancreatitis ended up helping her at mealtimes because no one else would.

I've had nothing but good experiences in the hospital nearest to me. The hospital I grew up near (and was born in) though is dire. I visited my nan in there (there was blood up the lift wall that was still there 3 days later), and often hear horror stories from my friends. It even had the pleasure of News of the World going undercover there

Good post gasman.

Your final line was very articulate: However, when I work tonight I will be delivering the same care to the most deprived and the most affluent and I think that is something as a society we should be rightly proud of. The NHS cannot fix other inequalities but it can ensure that everyone gets basic healthcare without fear of the costs.

I think the NHS is fantastic in an emergency situation - they saved the lives of my mother (sub arachnid hemorrhages), brother (run over), DExH (sepsis) and me (heart attacks). The emergency treatment and care in ICU couldn't be faulted. The horror stories all started once you got to a normal ward.

I was amazed at finding somebody elses dried blood on bed frames, dirty toilets, nurses who ignored you and nurses lying about care given.

We are currently taking legal advice about my DExH who was sent home on Christmas Eve to live alone, despite no care plan in place, with a missing foot, no dressings and uncontrolled diabetes.

again mixed feelings here.

the nhs as a concept is wonderful and something we should be very proud of.

The reality is often different. A dear relative of mine was killed by incompetence - a catheter was incorrectly inserted, he died of gangrene. It was an almighty fuck up and it killed him.

my sons bacterial meningitis was missed by several gps 4 times, however, at hospital they were fantastic, and the consultant who was experienced and dedicated saved his life despite being a rude obnoxious git
most of the nurses were fantastic, but i stayed in hospital with him for 2 months, sleeping on a camp bed next to him and giving him the round the clock care that the nurses with the best will in the world could not have done.
he was gravely ill and it was that consultant that knew exactly the course of the disease and preempted every possible complication - so just as the complications began he was on it. he was fantastic, and for that i can forgive him his total lack or people skills!

I'm really sorry for your loss cory, but I only had positive experiences at the hands of the NHS - both from my GP, who was ran off her feet in a busy London practice and from St Mary's Hospital in Paddington. They saved my life and provided fantastic aftercare and follow-up as well.

The issue with rare diseases, beyond diagnosis, is that you can't get on a "track" without a diagnosis. With something like, say, a specific cancer, there's a whole system of care, not just treatment, that swings into action once the dx is made. And it often works really well. But before dx there's just no plan! Basic nursing and rehab care is not available. Equipment is not available.

It's a kind of madness to say that, for example, someone who clearly cannot walk needs a dx before they get a wheelchair. Finding out why they can't walk and possibly fixing that is obviously the meta goal, but the wheelchair should not be dependent upon this END goal. There's no thought about how people can live their lives productively during the dx process. There's not millions of people angling after wheelchairs they don't need (obv there will be some, but really, why punish everyone for that).

There should be a track for undiagnosed patients, where their needs are considered seriously and their outcomes/progression tracked. The healthcare DP got post-dx was light years better than the previous ten years, but his spine was tethered that whole time. The only non-emergency "treatment" he got was about 4 appts (in that 10 years) with a rehab consultant, who poked his knees and said, oh, you're losing function, with no interest in 1) why a 23 year old fit man was losing the ability to walk, pee, hold a pen or 2) helping him deal with it.

Reading the stories they're not really "NHS" horror stories, they're bad HCP horror stories. Especially when you compare to MrsTerryPratchett's story which is actually about the health care system.

We don't have a system here that would leave people broke because they fell ill, we don't have people having to choose which treatment they need more, we don't have to try and nurse our children at home for as long as possible, we don't have to try and teach tiny children how to use a puffer because we can't afford the incredibly inflated cost of a chamber. We sometimes meet bad people and believe me I can tell you how a nurse and a midwife tried to destroy my family last year and got a paediatrician and a couple of other nurses involved, dragged along some other professionals who felt their hands were tied, kept out the people who could help me and left the mental health midwife running to the mental health department to get them to support me because she was scared of the "witch hunt" (her words) that had been started against me. Fortunately though I know that's not the NHS, it's those women.

Oh ffs. Another preacher. THIS is why you can never SOLVE anything in the NHS. No one listens.

DD2 was 6 weeks prem, but at 3 weeks old, after coming out of SCBU, she started having a funny noise in her chest. We took her straight to our GP who said that it was a chest infection, but that he didn't want to give her antibiotics because she was still tiny (!?!?!). That night she got worse and we rang and were finally able to speak to the GP on the phone - he said that we were being OTT and that all she had was a slight chest infection. We said that we would bring her back in in the morning to be checked over. We did so, but again the GP said that we were over-reacting. DH said that if she carried on this way then we would just take her to A&E - GP literally laughed at us and said that we would be wasting all of their time.
That night DD's chest got worse and was sounding horrible so we took her to A&E - staff were brilliant and took her to childrens ward for the night. We were told, again, that it was just a chest infection and that she would be fine. However, we had a pass for the Childrens ward for the next 24 hrs incase she took a turn for the worse.
Later on the next day her chest was horrendous, she was very pale, hardly having any milk and quite floppy. We took her back to childrens ward and within 5 minutes of arriving DD had stopped breathing and was rushed into emergency theatre to be intubated.
She was in theatre for hours as they just couldn't resuscitate. When she finally came out, the Paediatric retrieval team from a bigger city hospital came to take DD to their PICU.
DD spent over 2 weeks on a ventilator and had everything from double pneumonia to collapsed lungs. We were told many times that she wouldn't make it through the night, but she did and she's absolutely fine now!

So despite NHS saving DD's life, and staff in PICU were just the most amazing people we've ever come across - we owe DD's life to them - we were still told by so many people that DD just had a 'slight chest infection'.
Its easy to say that we should have just taken DD to A&E in first place, but so many people just told us that we were over-reacting.

I've had a few disagreements with NHS staff, but nothing but good experiences with their treatment, customer service and general response.

Without the NHS, I'd be permanently disabled, disfigured and potentially brain-damaged. There is no way I could have paid for the thousands of pounds worth of treatment I received.

Both DD and I are alive only through the am

ooops, amazing care we received through the NHS. Its not perfect, but little is. No horror stories here.

KateShmate, I have three pretermers and on my way to my fourth. We have a rule in this house now, if they're not well we go straight to A&E, we live within a mile of the Children's Hospital so we just go there.

Not sure what I was preaching about.

There seems to be confusion about attacking the NHS ie public criticism of services received and attacking the structure and funding of the NHS which is what our government is doing.

I have had very few positive experience of NHS services in my life but I still see free healthcare as a cornerstone of a civilised society.

I have seen truly appalling things in my local hospital- an old man sitting soaking in his own urine being laughed at by a male nurse, a relative with diarrhea soaked clothes stored for a week in the bedside cupboard next to her, same relative on a trolley for 48 hours with a broken hip and no pain relief or bed, a friend with PTSD after a botched caesarian, and worst of all this week a dear friend and new mum died in NHS care entirely and incontrovertibly due to medical negligence.

I know the NHS saves lives more than it ruins them but I've seen some pretty shocking ruins.