AIBU to think that an 11 and a 9 year old are not too old

[Helltotheno]

to start learning a musical instrument and become good at it? I ask because I seem to be surrounded by people who are adamant that children need to start learning three instruments an instrument at 4 or they'll never learn one well.

Stories please from people whose kids have been older starting music and become good/enjoyed it enough to keep it up.

Also, how vital is theory? E.g. if a child is learning guitar, should they be doing a separate theory lesson?

Of course they are not too old. Theory is vital in my view. Not sure about guitar but I started learning the piano at 5, and I would say that you need to have an understanding of reading sheet music if you are going to progress at any level.

Music theory should be taught in the actual music lesson, but I a practical degree. Otherwise they would never learn how to read music.

The ages are not too old.

I played the piano from about age 6 and didn't really like it but took up a brass instrument at 9 and loved it. It was easier initially because I could already read music but that isn't too hard to learn.

Probably won't be young musician of the year unless you start at 6 months but you can become very good whatever age you learn

My son was taught the violin in year 5 (the whole class were)

He became brilliant at it...ended up on the G&T register and has played with the London Symphony Orchestra a couple of times.

That's not a stealth boast by the way...it's an out and out boast as we're very proud of him

Re the theory, my DS taught himself to play guitar just by using youtube videos so not too important at all.

It depends on whether they want to be graded really.

My 13 year old started piano lessons in January - just through school, not privately, and is being entered for his Grade 3 exams at the moment - before then he had not had any lessons at all.
He also attends theory lessons in his free time that the school run after school and on Saturdays. We are now looking to find a private piano teacher as he is enjoying it so much, and does appear to have some talent despite his late start.

I started learning piano at 13, by 17 was sitting my grade 7 exam. If they're enthusiastic and it's something they want to do it makes a huge difference IMO.

I started to play the classical guitar at 9. IMO it was probably a bit young. I was good at it and the teacher wanted to push me but I wasn't mentally old enough to 'get it'. I stopped at grade 4 because I found the pressure too much and now play at around grade 6 standard.

I started the clarinet at 12 and passed my grade 8 at 17.

I started the piano at 16 and passed grade 5 at 17. Although that was just to get into university, I don't 'play the piano' by any stretch of the imagination

I started to play the flute when I was 34. I can now play grade 5 pieces.

I know someone who didn't play anything beyond the recorder until she was in her early 30s and now she works as a professional musician. You're either interested or you're not. Capable or you're not.

9 and 11 are the perfect ages to start, IMO.

worra that is brilliant! You are right to be very proud of him!

Ed Ball has just done his grade 1 piano and is now working on grade 2. Not sure how old he is, but at least 40s!

Sorry, Ed Balls!

I started to play the flute at 9. Perfect age IMHO. I managed grade 5 at 14 then I discovered boys and Duran Duran. I still consider myself to be musical..lol. Importantly it teaches kids self confidence and I think learning to read music improved my brain.

Yes theory is important if they want to progress. I would suggest anyone thinking about it to try music GCSE. I did music O level and it was considered to be very academic and when I applied to Uni (this is 1986) to do a very competitive course (not music) it was something that might have made a difference as it showed breadth of skills.

Amy MacDonald picked up a guitar a age 13 and taught herself and had written her first album by age 17. My OH taught himself age 40 odd.

My little brother started learning guitar from my Dad when he was about 8 or 9, twenty years later and he's s professional musician, not to boast but he's bloody brilliant.
Never too old to learn a musical instrument IMHO.

My Sister started playing the Cornet aged 11. By the time she was 16 she was Grade 8 distinction and Principle cornet when her band won the World Schools Brass Band Championship in Japan. Twice.

It's totally possible to start at that age and be completely accomplished.

OH took up his instrument at 17 and has played with professionals and amateurs over the years to a very high standard. He's not the only one I know either.
It all comes down to the level of enthusiasm, commitment and practising.

I grew up with someone who is now a famous professional classical guitarist. He didn't start until he was a teenager.

Thanks for all the encouraging stories!
I guess my biggest concern is picking the right instrument for them after my own exerience: started piano at about 12, really liked it and practised diligently, stopped at Grade 7 (don't think I showed particular talent, only had excellent results in ear tests). But now, after all that work, I can't play a note, either with or without music :(
Was piano the wrong instrument for me?
Looking back, I think instruments on the rock side would've suited me better, e.g. drums, guitar etc. Was it the grades that stuffed me?

Can anyone identify with the above?

Also, how do you get kids to practise? My reasoning is, by starting them older, it's something they should be motivated to do themselves rather than have me pushing them into it all the time. What are your experiences?

Wow!!! Really glad I posted this :)

It depends on the instruments (a child needs to be physically be able to correctly hold certain instruments) and it can actually put a child off if they start learning something too young (eg violin). It also depends on the child and their musical ability. I would say 9 is a good age and 11 isn't too late either (I am a music teacher).

Music theory should be taught both as part of a music lesson in school and in instrumental lessons as they go along. However once you reach the dreaded grade 5 theory, then specific lessons are best.

Philip Sheppard has written a great book called 'Can Music Make Your Child Smarter' and lists the best ages to start specific instruments.

Thanks, will check that book out.
What would you say about a child who can't sing in tune but likes music generally, learning an instrument? Is there a particular one that's better?
I know my DS has a good ear and can sing, like me, but DD would be an out-of-tune singer, but loves listening to stuff.

I started playing the piano when I was 14. I passed grade 5 within 10 months and grade 6 within a further 8 months. I'm not particularly musical by the way. I just enjoyed it and practised a lot. (I could read music because I already played the clarinet.)

DH is very musical and I'm pretty sure he didn't start his first instrument until late primary school! deffo not at 4

from a selfish point of view, i'ld rather an older child practicing who can get through the unbearable screachy practice stages fast than a 4 year old who sounds dreadful for longer!

I've played the violin from age 7 and reached grade 8+ (went on to study in University), although just play as an amateur nowadays. I played the clarinet from 10 and reached grade 7, but arguably 10 was a bit young as I was lacking in 'puff'!

I think it depends on the instrument tbh. Almost all the violinists I know (good amateur or professional) started between 5-8yo. Whereas most of the brass players I know started at 10+.

Like you OP I reached a reasonable standard on piano (G6), and can hardly play a note now (although can read music well due to my violin playing). I was never a natural, and struggled with it, so that's probably why.

So anyway, in answer to your questio, I think it depends on the instrument and the dedication In relation to making them practice, my DM encouraged me a lot until I was 9 or 10, and then left it up to me to take the reponsibility for motivation. I can honestly say that this personal motivation from a young-ish age led to a good work ethic as an teenager and adult.

One of my DMs tricks was 'of course you can give up BlueCanary, whenever you want, you just need to call your violin teacher and let her know' - I was so mortified at letting my teacher down, that (thankfully) I never gave up and went on to have so many lovely experiences and opportunities as a result..

Of course they're not too old. I've met people who've started learning as adults and have reached a good standard (not professionals, but very good amateur players).

Formally learning theory is probably only necessary if they want to do the exams, otherwise it's probably enough to pick it up as you go along.

Do they want to learn an instrument?

DH had left school before he picked up a drum stick, he's not famous by any stretch of the imagination but has backed some fairly well-known people and has taught in schools too.

also a good friend of mine decided she wanted to learn an instrument in the year leading up to her 40th birthday - she's pretty good at bagpipes now!

re practicing I think it depends on the instrument and the child.

My ds started clarinet at age 7, which I thought was too young, but he really wanted to play. He diligently practiced every day for 20 min (a lot) at that age. He got tired after a couple of years and stopped (I think it's because teacher was a little boring). He took it up again this last year (age 11) and has been practicing less (just doesn't have the time), but has a fantastic teacher so is enjoying it more. This teacher is showing him how to record himself on RockBand and put him in a rock jazz group to play with other kids. Ds is never going to be a professional, or even super competent clarinet player, but his world is definitely enriched by having this experience.

dd (9) on the other hand has been taking guitar since she was 6 (I thought too young, but she really wanted to) and has not practiced more than a couple of times in 3 years. Again, I think it's worth it because she is getting the exposure to music which will make her a more well rounded person. And when she is older, she may just want to start practicing so she will improve more rapidly (teacher says she could actually be extremely good if she practiced). Here in the USA we don't have the grades and levels for music that you have in the UK, so it's much easier to let a child just learn at their own pace and in their own way.