why is it unacceptable to tell other people's children off

[daisiessunflowersandtulips]

I'm not talking about smacking, naughty step, punishment of any kind or telling off for trivial things. But if they do something dangerous, in your house or seriously hurtful/irritating to you what's wrong with calmly telling them not to.

Eg when BIL and SIL came to visit and their DNs were wrecking the sofa I asked them to stop (as in stop that please) and when they didn't I hauled them off. Why would I wait for someone else to do it in my house. Or if I am trying to eat a meal in a cafe and someone's child comes up and starts trying to rock my table, I say don't do that, it's not a nice thing to do, go back to your mummy.

Mostly noone minds. Once or twice people have got huffy. I genuinely don't get if you are polite about it what the issue is. Either it takes a village etc and you want your child to be socialised (which includes understanding that other people don't want you to do things which disrupts them) or only you as the parent can do it but then surely keep a tighter leash?

I tell other peoples kids off all the time. In our family we treat each others kids the same as we treat our own. So if i saw my dn being naughty i would tell him off no matter whose house we wer in or whether or not my sis was there. My sis does the same with my dd.

daisysun, I cannot believe that your SIL said "manners are only a social construct", wtf????? Does she and your BIL not ask them to say please / thank you and behave well in someones house.

Its a really difficult question, whether or not I think it is acceptable depends on so many things, if I'm there I expect that I do it. It depends on who it is, how and why.

I find my BIL quite difficult as he doesn't tell kids off very well and often its for minor things that I don't think are a problem. For example, DS (5) and their DS (3) were throwing tissues in the air and watching them float down, they were occupying themselves and having fun. He found it irritating, tried to get them to stop, failed and then looked at me, my DH and his DW and asked why we didn't do anything and they were making a mess. We were all a bit meh, they can tidy it up themselves.

Of course especially if the parents are doing nothing about it

Or if they are inaffective

tryingto my FIL is a bit like that, he will shout at dd2 if she is talking loudly, or go on at ds (who is 2) about not hurting his dinosaurs by making them bump into each other. I mean that is what a 2yr old does with a couple of plastic toy dinosaurs, and I honestly don't think that an 85yr old man is likely to be playing dinosaurs of an evening on his own. He just feels that as they sit on his shelf as they probably have for 30yrs since dh and his Bro were given them for free that they should always be there gathering dust. It would be different if ds was playing with something which is clearly still used by FIL like a pen etc, we would obviously intervene, but don't give a boy a toy and then tell him off for playing with it. That sort of telling off is unacceptable.

If any of my children hurt another child or were fighting I have no problem with someone nicely telling them off and sending them to find me. If I am there though I will tell them off myself. I think people telling other children off do need to think about whether that child is doing something which is just irritating or something which is wrong/ harmful before telling them off in front of the parents.

YANBU
I can't bear parents who think that you shouldn't be allowed to so much as look the wrong way at their children, no matter what they do.

I had this twice at soft play the other day. First with three older children who shoved in front of me in the cafe queue - literally pushed me out of the way - I said "Er, excuse me," pointedly and they apologised meekly and moved, but then one of them went over to their mum and was clearly complaining about me, leading to much glaring from the mum. Second incident was when I refused to open the gate into the baby area (I was sitting right next to it) for a child of about 6 who got a bit stroppy. I told her to leave the gate alone and go play somewhere else - again, straight over to mum who glared and made obvious comments about me to the people she was with - and got a bland smile in response.

I also had a minor run-in with a mum at a farm park a few weeks ago. I was standing with the DSs and their cousin while their gran took the other cousin to the toilet. There was a coin-operated ride nearby with another child of about 3 playing on it. They went over and stood nearby. I told them not to try to get on as another child was there, and that we were leaving in a minute. DS1 touched one of the cartoon figures on the ride, but made no attempt to climb on, but the little boy on the ride kicked him in the head. Not a hard kick, but a firm one if you know what I mean. I said "Don't do that please." He did it again, so I pulled DS1 away and said "No kicking." He then disolved into tears and started screaming for his mum who walked over to see what was wrong.

I explained what had happened and she got hugely stroppy with me and said "Well it must have been provoked." I said it hadn't been, but DS1 was fine and these things happen,etc etc, all very conciliatory. She insisted on questioning her DS about what had happened, all very much geared up to my DS1 being in the wrong. "Did he do something? Did he hit you? Were you frightened?" with me standing there saying "Really, he just kicked him. But it's fine, we'll leave you to it. He's fine." She was quite snappy with me, saying "well if you say he kicked him then he's going to have to apologise." More screaming from her DS.

We started to walk away and she came after us and insisted that he had to apologise, which he refused to do, so we all stood there like mugs while her DS screamed and rolled on the floor. I kept saying we should leave it and that DS1 would have forgotten about it in 5 minutes, but she was getting really wound up and saying "No, he's got to apologise" and somehow none of us could muster the gumption to say "this is daft, we're going." He eventually apologised, at which point she glared at me, shook her head and stomped off. Clearly I had somehow angered her by my child being on the receiving end of her child's bad behaviour!

Just reading this after a holiday break.

I must say I have come across an awful lot of kids over the years coming to our house and being unbelievably respectful to both my children and the things in the home. One child still comes round and jumps onto the family computer without asking, another goes into the bathroom and roots around in the drawers etc. Quite a few think it's OK to just help themselves to food without asking. I KNOW my children don't behave like that in other childrens houses, they are deferential and do what is expected. They may have slightly different quirks, like accidentally burping at the table and laughing, or leaving the table without asking, which I don't mind them being corrected for.

It's not the behaviour that bugs me, it's the disregard that is involved when it is someone else's home. I feel that a lot of these children come from very strict homes and come here knowing that I allow my own kids to use the family computer, root around in the bathroom, get all the toys out at once, eat when they need to (but not without asking). They do it here because in their own home the rules are very strict and they are getting told off all the time and are not able to play freely.

I think a lot of parents fail to teach their children to respect others, and that is the root of all good behaviour. They teach their children to look out for themselves first.

Of course you can tell a stranger child "Please stop, that's not nice, I can't let you do that". What planet do you guys live on? (I'm ALWAYS thinking that on MN).

Different if a nasty or angry tone of voice is used, or threats made or actual punishment imposed.

I'm staying with family at the mo.
I don't like my family intervening, before I've had a chance to open my mouth.

I'm really on the ball anyway, so its just these family members having a go too!

I think what it boils down to is everybody's expectations of acceptable behaviour are totally different. The behaviour I demand of my ds may be a million miles away from someone else's 'bothered' range.

If I gave the death stare, asked someone's child not to do something etc I think the parents' reaction could be either agreement and back up, or they could take it as me being, well, a cheeky cow and judgemental of their parenting.

It's clear on here that has been the case. I watched a 9/10 year old running up and down the aisle of an aircraft recently with what looked like his 3/4 year old sister. Stuffing paper into the loo 'til it wouldn't flush, swearing at his mother whilst holding his fist up to her face (I'm sure it was a joke but it looked just awful), asking random passengers for sweets/crisps. He Was Lovely. Mum and friends thought it was hilarious 'fgs they're ON HOLIDAY miserable cow - was she never a child?' when the cabin crew spoke to her. It was a nightmare. Mum and party clearly thought it was totally within realms of expected behaviour.