Children scared of dogs?

[DozyDuck]

Ok back story: DS has ASD, for some reason he is terrified of big dogs. I don't know why, I've tried everything to help him get over it, the farm he goes horse riding at has big dogs and after a while he was fine with them but then only them. I've tried the dogs trust, and when he gets used to a dog he's fine, but again it's only the dog he knows, he's still terrified of other dogs, especially when they run at him (being friendly) he screams and tries to climb up me. Sometimes when out of a dog is walking near him and he's obviously worried, the owner can show him that the dog is nice and DS may throw a stick for it (never touch it) , but if a dog runs up to him he doesn't like it.

Anyway me and DS were walking through the woods this morning and walking behind us a bit were a couple with a walking toddler and a little dog, DS was a bit nervous of the little dog but it left him alone so after a bit he forgot about it.

Then from the other direction walked an older woman with a border collie. The border collie saw DS and obviously thought he'd like to play with him (I understand as a lot of children love it when dogs come over) and ran over to DS wagging his tail. I said 'ahh DS look doggy likes you' (but he hardly understands much so it was more the tone I was going for to try and make him feel better)

But DS screamed, kicked, climbed up me, the lady said 'it's ok he won't bite' of which the only word DS could understand was 'bite' which made him even more scared and I lifted him up and he was in bits while I told him it was ok and petted the dog a bit.

The dog then saw the toddler behind and ran to him, which the toddler loved, so I put DS down and started calming him. The lady then walked up to the parents behind us (obviously in earshot) and said 'it's nice to see children who aren't scared of dogs instead of those whose parents drag them away'

I didn't drag him away. I lifted him because he was scared and she didn't call the dog away and said 'bite' I got really upset and walked off.

AIBU to think that of a child is scared of dogs then it's scared of dogs, it isn't the parents fault, and if the child is obviously getting scared you'd call your dog back instead of slagging off the parents for having a nervous child?

DS isn't scared of anything else, he'd happily stand in the middle of the main road if he could. I don't know why he's scared of dogs. I can't help him :(

Was the woman being unreasonable or should I have done something different?

Thank marianne. I love dogs! I don't mind them jumping all over me, I wish I had the money or tone of voice to have and train one.

DSs dad loves dogs too so I really don't understand where the fear comes from. Maybe it's an autism/unpredictability thing.

Just to be clear I don't think owners should apologise for their dogs being friendly if they come back when called away from scared DS and I don't think dogs should be on leads all the time. I just want a bit of understanding when DS is scared and to be fair I usually do.

Sometimes the dogs don't come back when called (sometimes DS doesn't so who am I to judge someone on that?) but owners are usually very apologetic if their dogs don't leave us alone after being told.

This is the first time I've had someone be mean about DS and his fear I just wasn't sure if I was doing something wrong

Have you tried crouching/squatting down with your DC while you're stroking the dog (if it isn't too boisterous) and reassuring your DC that the dog is friendly/encouraging him to stroke the dog.

You probably have already tried that

I don't think you did anything wrong, really. The woman was wrong to not get her dog back straight away if she could see your DS was scared. I'm not clear how old your DS is, but I would be inclined not to pick him up unless he is very tiny or in danger, otherwise it may reinforce to him that there is something to be scared of.

As much a sit's frustrating for parents to have unwanted dogs run up to them, it is equally frustrating to dog owners to either have out of control children to run up to dogs or ridiculous parents drag DCs back in an 'Oh how terrifying' way when the dog has done nothing wrong. However, it seems you didn't do either of these and so were perfectly reasonable, although the woman wasn't to know that 'bite' was the only word your DC understood.

As far as teaching him to say 'back' I don't think that's a great idea at this stage as his terror will show in his voice and he is more likely to make eye contact with the dog or flap at it, making it far more likely that it would either bite or jump enthusisaticaslly onto him.

It's a really tough one and it sounds like you're doing a great job. I would be inclined just to make as little of it as possible at the moment when meeting real life dogs. Maybe some books with doggy heroes might reinforce that they're not all bad?
Don't worry about a silly woman!

Tbh withoutcaution I haven't tried crouching next to DS and the dog as DS would probably then try to climb up me and knock me flying if he's in a state. Maybe when I see a dog coming I should stop and try crouching and reassuring before it comes? It is hard when there is a constant stream of dogs where we walk though.

Ok I won't lift up DS next time (he is 6) unless he is in danger. I think that's just a reaction thing, I want to make it better I don't like seeing him scared.

I totally agree about children running up to dogs and parents dragging children away dramatically (DS is on a harness so I can control his running up to toddlers and pushing them over as they seem to like to stare at DS (he's very interesting) and that 'hurts' DS (apparently) so he retaliates. My BF has a toddler who stares at him constantly, it isn't just the dog thing that's an issue with us while out.

DSs friend is the opposite of him and will run at dogs full pelt to harass the poor things and her mum is constantly grabbing her and saying 'ask first!' so when we are out together we are trying to strike a balance between making DS less scared and her DD more cautious.

I don't think I'd let my dog run up to some kid we didn't know. Although I absolutely know the dog wouldn't cause any harm, other people don't know that. So many people seem to be afraid of dogs these days, unlike back in the days when I was young when every other person owned a dog. So when I see kids out, I automatically assume they will be afraid of the dog too, which is a bit sad.

Although regardless of fear, I must say I find it irritating when owners have their dogs off a lead and no ability to control them. Dd has been sent flying by random dogs in the park on quite a few occasions, one owner didn't even bother to say anything, she just carried on walking

Oh and DS loves books about dogs! He loves seeing photos of dogs... Just isn't keen when they run up to him.

Tsk. No need for her to make any kind of stupid and insensitive comment whatsoever.

Yes you expect to meet dogs on walks but then dog owners should also expect to meet children on walks and be prepared to reign their dogs in as many of them tower over little toddlers. A public footpath or a park is not just there for dog walkers but for all members of the public to enjoy and dog walkers have no additional rights in this space.

My kids have been jumped all over by dogs too, as have we. It's not appreciated. Our clothes get muddy, the kids often get knocked over and no attempt is made by those owners to call the dogs back.

Not all dog owners are insensitive arses but it sounds as though you met one of them. You did nothing wrong. You tried to placate your child, you were nice to the dog and you did not at any point suggest that the dog should be on a lead or should not approach your ds. This woman obviously thinks her pooch is the bees knees and all children should be prepared to pet and make a fuss of it.

I do wish that some dog owners would accept that actually, most of the time children and dogs do not mix as both have a tendency to get over-excited. If parents don't allow kids to run up and start hugging strange dogs then dog owners should not allow their dogs to start jumping all over children. I appreciate that this lady's dog didn't but she was rude when you had done nothing absolutely nothing wrong and everything right.

And I can fully understand why you want to de-sensitise your ds to dogs. If you go for walks anywhere in this country you come across dogs both on and off leads so it makes sense to try and get children used to this. It's just a shame that a few dog owners don't make concessions for small children.

Noqontrol DS has almost fallen backwards down a rocky hill when a dog has run up to him before so I understand that :( I do think if he could get over the fear he wouldn't be in danger of this though and I do think sometimes that his massive reaction makes the dogs more
Inclined to stay near him especially those who are used to kids and are a bit protective of them poor things don't understand it's them that's making him cry

I did have a sort of funny encounter once though on a walk with DSs scooter, a border collie stopped dead and barked which made DS flap and jump on his scooter so the dog barked more.

Turned out the poor dog was terrified of the scooter and DS was terrified of the dog so they were stuck setting each other off!

Then when I managed to get DS off the scooter I had to spend ages explaining to an older woman that DS didn't understand what she was telling him at all.

Her: 'how old is he?'
Me: '6 but he doesn't understand language'

Her: 'speaking a bit slowly but speech still complex'

Me: 'he can't understand you, it's ok it doesn't matter he will forget when you're out of sight.

Her: 'ok, the doggy just likes you DS he's scared of your scooter you see'

Poor woman seemed just as confused as the dog and DS. Urgh complicated life sometimes

Dogs are unpredictable and it is probably this element which unsettles your son. You say hes ok with dogs once he knows them, or once they become more predictable to him.

Maybe you could try telling him a bit about dog body language. He is little so keep it basic. Things like a wagging tail is like a doggy smile. It means they are happy to see you etc.

My cousin has ASD so I know how difficult it must be for your son to pick up on the signs which others can read. Maybe pointing them out repetitively in a soothing tone would help.

You sound like you are doing all you can though. Really try not to let that womans comments annoy you.

Just read that he doesnt understand language, my post probably not that helpful then.

Some people can really be insensitive though. :(

No he wouldn't understand that wannabe but thanks for trying to give me advice. I'll take any I can get! I have a ridiculous irrational fear of aeroplanes. I mean to the point I don't like to hear them flying over me, probably brought on by my mum being openly scared in front of us. I really don't want DS to be scared of anything to that extent. He's absolutely fine with planes because I (through gritted teeth) point them out to him and smile. I just can't seem to make this dog thing go away.

I wish he was more scared of roads and falling out of bloody windows and less scared of dogs! Maybe I could ask someone for a fear exchange

She probably thought you were one of those parents that put fear of dogs into their children, but I can see why the comment got to you. If she understood the situation she wouldn't have said it. She's just a stranger, she's unimportant to you in the grand scheme of things, just ignore.

I have 2 dcs with ASD and if I didn't ignore certain looks and comments when out in public I would probably have been arrested by now

Haha headfirst I'm usually good at ignoring things. There's only been one or two occasions where I have snapped at nasty comments (and felt worse for snapping afterwards)

I don't know why this got to me so much. Probably because I knew the type of parent behaviour she was referring to (over reacting when a dog sniffs DC when DC isn't bothered) and I am not one of those parents and don't want to be thought of as one.

She sounds like a bloody rude cow and I don't think you need any tips as you sound like your doing a great job as it is. I'm sorry some people are so ignorant.

Oh, and it can't be dogs he is afraid of if he is fine once he knows one, like you and others have said it's the not knowing, and the unpredictability of a strange dog. Other animals and people don't run up to us generally, and things like cars are nice and predictable and stay on the roads where they belong.

I don't know what you can do really apart from continue to use a reassuring voice and hope he grows out of his fear.

She was out of line for not having sufficient control of her dog to make sure it didn't approach your son in the first place. I never allow my dog to approach other people unless they seek interaction with my dog. I certainly don't 'blame' anyone for beng nervous/scared or dogs. She was really quite rude IMO. I hope your son calmed down quickly and it didn't spoil his walk.

Yeah I think it is the unpredictability of dogs, and the loud bark. He loves it when strange cats walk over to him but I suppose cats don't bound and jump up...

I do understand if a dog has children at home and thinks 'ooo child, strokes, play' and gets excited though... I wouldn't dream of being one of them people that shouts 'control your animal' at dog owners especially if they're trying to. They might be rescue dogs and in the process of being trained.

To be fair I've also had to stop DS scaring a poor rescue dog by flapping and screaming once. The poor thing was cowering and DS was scaring it more by being scared and in that circumstance I have apologised to the owner for DS being so dramatic.

That was back when he used to flap at dogs being anywhere near him though. No he sort of eyes them nervously and grabs me unless they run to him, then he screams and flaps so it is getting better slowly

YANBU

I have a 6ft, 17 year old DS who doesn't seem to e scared of anything apart from dogs. He really can't stand them and will back out of rooms if there is a dog there. Small dogs or large dogs he can't stand any of them. He usually deals with it by simply telling the dogs owners he doesn't like dogs which is usually totally ignored! I admit it's a bit funny seeing a big lad being nervous of a dog but it's his call surely. He has found that it is much more effective and 'acceptable' to say he has a severe allergic reaction to them.

I am a keen walker/runner/biker and have had experience of more than my fair share of over familiar dogs. My biggest bugbear with this, is doggie slobber or mud getting on my clothes.

Hi, my DS is ASD and was phobic about dogs for several years (after coming across a dog walker in the park with a pack of dogs who all ran up to him at once, he screamed and jumped up a tree and the dog walker shouted at him to not be scared.). Any trip to the park was a nightmare as he was so scared. His lovely psychologist advised us to borrow an old sleepy dog and practice DS getting used to his heart racing when he was near the dog and gradually moving closer. He got to understand that the panic feeling did subside. It always surprises me when owners say 'he wont' bite' as AS or not, it plants the thought that he might bite in the child's head. The biggest improvement for us came when we moved house and the large friendly dog next door got into our garden almost every day. It really gradually de-sensitised him. We now have our own dog but I have to say DS even as a strapping teenager did not enjoy the puppy stage - puppy was far too unpredictable. Now she is a sensible age and trained (a bit) he takes her for walks and is really fine. I agree with not picking him up if you can and speaking firmly to the dog. I definitely don't think encouraging him to pat the dog is a good idea as he is genuinely terrified at the time and I found that tbh there wasn't much that would calm DS down except removing him or the dog when he was in full blown panic. I ALWAYS call my dog to me when there are children coming towards us as lots of children are scared or even a bit unsure. You did nothing wrong and the dog owner was insensitive IMO. Some people just are and I'm sure if she knew the circumstances she would hopefully feel .

Of course you shouldn't tell the dog to do anything if you are not in a confident frame of mind.

Does your DS understand body language? There are plenty of good books that show good doggy body language and which dogs can be approached and which should be avoided. Some of the books have loads of pictures to show how the dog would look using certain body language. Would this allow your DS to be calmer?

Oh and wannabe not all wagging tails mean the dog is happy

It's good to know that there is hope for him then. I really don't want him to be scared if I can help it at all.

How mean of people to ignore a person saying they are scared of dogs though! I have cats and the first thing I ask therapists who visit the house is if they are ok with cats. For all I know they could have a phobia/ be allergic/ not want cat hair on their work clothes from over familiar therapy cats

If they say they are ok but look unsure in any way the cats go out.

I'd love a dog and have really considered it but I then worry that if DS gets over familiar with his dog and tries to pick it up/dance with it/ put it in his bag (like he does with his very lovely cats, and the dog doesn't like it, it will snap at him. If a cat has had enough, it will scratch (which mine have never done) but there's a big difference between a cat snapping and a dog snapping. Plus I don't think I'd be any good at training a dog, I don't have the voice for it I don't think. (I have one of those wimpy voices that you tend to hear on early years practitioners used to working with small children )

I was being unreasonable to pick up DS then. I'll try to resist the urge next time! But she was being very unreasonable to not call her dog away/ make a mean comment.

The muddy paws and slobber isn't something I particularly mind. DS usually has muddle hands and is usually chewing on some item of my clothing

Hi OP, sorry to hear about your bad experience - my DS2 (Aspergers) used to be horribly phobic of dogs, reacting just as you described. We also had to deal with dog-owners who would try to be helpful but really not understand, the "oh he's really friendly, he won't bite" comments, and the not so helpful "that child's the one who should be on a lead" (yes, really ). We have an amazing Autistic charity near us and in desperation I contacted them, and they put me in touch with another group who do animal therapy with SEN kids. It really has been nothing short of a miracle - we even have our own dog now .

What really seemed to be the turning point was when DS2 understood that waving your arms about and screaming just got the dogs excited and made them want to play. When he saw with his own eyes that if you stand still, fold your arms across your chest and "look for rain" (head up no eye contact), they just run past you - or at most give you a quick sniff!! I understand that language is a problem but do you think you might be able to explain or demonstrate that somehow to your DS? It might be worth contacting the National Autistic Society in your area, or the Kennel Club - they do lots of courses for children and other work with SENs and might be able to put you in contact with someone who can help. Hope this gives you some ideas

I would always whenever possible stop my dog jumping up. It's just good manners.

However, I really would work on any child's fear of dogs as they are bound to come across them.