To think horses do not belong in the Olympics

[StunningCunt]

They've got this horse prancing sideways with a toff in a top hat on the top, and they are devoting hours of TV coverage because we might get a gold medal in this nonsense?

Why don't they just have a dog show there and be done with it?

Competitive sheep herding?

Motor racing?

But you could put the (for example) mens coxless pair gold medal winning team in any of the boats uses any they would still win. The yachts Ben Ainsley races are of a standard construction. Usain Bolt would still be the fastest man on earth if he wore nike instead of Puma.

This is patently not the case with equestrian events where the performance of the 'athlete' is indistinguishable from the performance of the horse.

Ha ha OP! You are being VVU!

I don't understand why so many people think having a horse = having loads of money. Someone once said to me the fastest way to become a millionaire is to start off a billionaire and buy horses!

Many Olympic sports are incredibly expensive, sailing, track cycling. It takes years and years to get to get to the level required whatever sport someone chooses. I just can't bear the ridiculous snobbery that is involved just because they are horses, it's weird.

Ps those who think you just need to sit there, you are welcome to ride my horse, I'm sure you'll find it a piece of piss !

"The Olympics is meant to be a showcase of the limits human skill and performance not animal."

Only if we use the Beanie Olympic sport definition. Luckily for us equestrian loving lot the IOC does not use this and so equestrian remains an olympic sport

Or to put it another way, Ben Ainsley would still be olympic champion if he swapped boats with a competitor.

An equestrian rider would not be if they swapped horses.

Nancy, as I understand it, the riders don't look like they are doing anything because both horse and rider are trained to such a high level that to the observer the rider appears to be doing nothing, although nothing could be further from the truth. If application of the aids (e.g. reins, legs) is visible, the rider is marked down. It takes a huge amount of skill from horse and rider.

Disclaimer- am 'happy hacker' not dressage expert, so please feel free to correct my post if incorrect!

Beanie I can assure you the performance of the rider is absolutely crucial to the performance of the horse.

The best dressage horse in the world in recent times is (was) called Totilas. He was ridden by one of today's Dutch riders, Edward Gal. They were unbeatable, scoring marks above that of today's gold medallists. About two years ago a German bought him for mega bucks with the intention of Totilas representing Germany in these Olympics.

Look down the list of entrants. You won't see Totilas's name. His new German rider - a very competent rider called Matthias Rath, who has won plenty of high-level dressage competitions, couldn't ride the horse well enough to be selected for the German team. After having almost two years to 'gel' with it.

Yes they would, they might not be as good as the standard they can reach with their own horse but they would still be able to perform dressage.

That's true, beanie, that individual horses will vary in their skill in a way that individual boats will not. But that is because all of the individual boats will have been manufactured to the very highest standards already. That will have been achieved without any input from the sportspeople themselves, whereas in the case of horses the sportsperson and her training team will have helped to create their horse's excellence. That is part of the sport, just as an athlete's training regime for the 200m etc is part of the sport. So there is more scope, not less, for human performance, compared with boating sports.

And anyway, it is only in recent years that equipment like boats has been developed to such a high point that you can more or less count on one competitor's boat being as good as another, or one person's bike, etc.

Sorry, pressed 'post' too early.

Edward Gal is here at the Olympics - he trained another horse to Olympic standard. So he is demonstrably a better rider, more skilled than Matthias Rath. Regardless of the fact that Rath now rides the best horse in the world.

What's that if it's not individual skill?

Ai raide horses and A'im posh as fuck.

One never mucks out without one's top hat on.

OP you're another dull class warrior, stick to hare coursing and "ladies day", there's a love.

Dog Agility at the top level requires the dog and handler to be very fit and agile, understand each others body language, perform obstacles independently. This takes years of training and hours each week. It will never be an Olympic sport though because the international organising bodies lack coherence and a common ethos.

BeanieStats, the performance relies on the partnership of both horse and rider. Horses are often bought and sold between countries so new partnerships need to be forged.

I thought it was wonderful to watch horses and riders who had been together for years performing as beautifully as those who had not been together as long.

From what I have seen from my friends and family, the Olympics have broadened people's understanding and enjoyment of other sports - in most cases anyway.

Sorry to balls the argument up, agree horses should be at the Olympics but didn't Mark Todd take over a ride from another rider who was injured (could have been Ian Stark?) with about a week to get used to him and came in the top 3 at Burghley? Mind you, he is awesome.

Mark Todd

Reindeer herding and reindeership as opposed to horsemanship.

If you're looking at toffery, I reckon there are more toffs in the rowing squad than in the equestrians.

funny you say that hellonheels I was thinking the same thing myself about the rowing.

I had to log into my laptop so I could show some examples of how fit dogs and handlers have to be to do agility at the top level

So if we take the horses out it would come down to being good at appearing to do nothing - I've found my sport at last

Fire and ashes Totilas isn't at the Olympics because Matthias Rath has glandular fever (rotten timing), not because he couldn't ride him. After a rocky start, when Totilas wasn't doing so well they settled down well together and were starting to achieve the sort of scores that he had with Edward Gal. They were on the list for the German Dressage team until the dreaded glandular fever hit.

Oh, and to answer the OP.
YABVU

YABVU and silly

Can't one of the equestrian experts tell us how many countries have dressage teams at London 2012 ? I don't think it's elitist but I think it may well be minority.

The simple fact is that the performance of any rider is entirely down to the performance of his animal. This leaves us with two options:

1. Put the horse and the trainer on the podium with the rider. Which if we do that we may as well allow any mechanical or chemical aide as then it is no longer a test of human skill but of technical resource. In fact, on this basis I see no reason why formula 1 cannot be an Olympic sport.

1. Use a pool of animals randomly assigned to each rider. Better than option one but renders the outcome a case of luck rather than judgement as the performance of the individual animal is impossible to quantify.

In an event that is a celebration of human skill and achievement the equestrian events stand out as a series of events that are present for no other reason than the money that the sport pumps in to the IOC.

Thankfully given the dire state of equestrian teams this year equestrian events will probably be binned by the time of the 2020 Olympics.

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