To think horses do not belong in the Olympics

[StunningCunt]

They've got this horse prancing sideways with a toff in a top hat on the top, and they are devoting hours of TV coverage because we might get a gold medal in this nonsense?

Why don't they just have a dog show there and be done with it?

Competitive sheep herding?

Motor racing?

jeez. i really think that you should read what i have written, people. i don't have any issue with dressage, other than your continual assertion that it's a sport for all, which is clearly bollocks, even according to the sport's own ambassador, Jennifer Saunders.

PS also, this selective quoting that you're indulging in, Cakebump, is rather bad form.

"Bad form"?

Oh sorry, I'll stop then....?!

Actually no, here's another one for you-

it's a sport for all, which is clearly bollocks - you're wrong, quite simply.

And if I got it wrong about you thinking dressage is cruel (lots of arguments on here, I may well have got confused), then if I amend my post to read:

"I fail to see how, if you think Olympic dressage is a sport for toffs, you could think Para was any better unless you know nothing about dressage . Of course you could be one of the "aww but don't they do well up there on the horse, let's give her a clap" brigade...."

I think it still stands :)

oh christ, the passive-aggressive smiley, haven't seen that deployed so viciously in a while.

the reason it's ridiculous to selectively quote is that it's easy to miss out things like 'i admire those riders enormously' and, from earlier, you quoted only the second half of 'imo while you cannot take away the skill or commitment of the athletes concerned (horse and rider, both amazing) the whole thing is a massive turn-off because it just seems so champagne-y and braying and worlds away from the way most people live.' i mean, that's a disgrace tbh.

so, once again, before responding i would advise you to read my posts again. I only came on because i'd seen Jennifer Saunders' show, she's an ambassador for the sport and the whole thing is conducted among the poshos by her own reckoning. she's portraying it that way, and that's being encouraged by the elders of the sport. they're not bothered about breaking down the stereotype, it seems...

But what could be more inclusive than a sport which enables disabled riders to compete to a standard that is only discernibly different from the "parent" sport to those who have specialised knowledge of the latter? No huge obvious flags screaming "look! Different! Disabled!" just some minor adjustments to tack and fewer movements carried out.

British Dressage holds literally thousands of dressage competitions in the UK every year, and that's just the affiliated side of it. Go unaffiliated and there are thousands more. They are open to anyone with a horse who wants to compare how their training is coming along against other riders or even just their own previous score. You won't see the top hats and tails at that level, just ordinary riders on ordinary horses of all shapes and sizes.

It might suit people to think all riders are rich braying toffs, and if that's the angle JS has chosen then I'm disappointed, because I know dozens of people - myself included - who own a horse and are as far from "rich braying toff" as it's possible to get. (I'm from good old working-class Geordie stock myself.) Somd of them even - gasp! - compete.

I'm retreading old ground here but to compete at the top level of ANY sport is expensive so it's unfair to single out dressage. And if Carl and Charlotte were such "rich toffs" their horses wouldn't be up for sale now, would they?

but never mind what stock you are from, you can afford to buy and keep a horse. that's just not open to all, surely to god you can see that?

and i hardly think Carl and Charlotte will cease owning horses just because they're selling these ones, will they?

There's plenty of opprtunity to ride (if you live anywhere near the countryside) without having lots of money.

I ride, I don't have lots of money. I ride a friend's horse. I used to compete in dressage on horses which were used for Riding for the Disabled, to give them something a bit different to do on their days off. My horsey friends don't have lots of money. I was a groom, so rode 4 times a day, and got paid minimum wage.

I've already stated all this upthread, if you can't be arsed to read it or don't want to listen to people who may know something about what you're talking about, then that's really your perogative.

I bought my first horse when I started work. I made the decision to live in a cheaper flat, not drive a car and not have any holidays or expensive nights out. Anyone earning the same amount of money as me - which was less than half the national average wage at the time - could have afforded to do the same if they'd been prepared to make some sacrifices.

Carl's horse isn't owned by him, he owns half of Charlotte's ride which cost £4k as an unridden 2-year-old (less than a basic hatchback car) and Charlotte doesn't own ANY horses. That's the point! The riders in the top hats aren't the "rich toffs" - they're riding horses owned by other people who don't have the skill to ride to that standard themselves and who want to support British sport to win medals.

Is there a "bangs head against wall" emoticon?

To be fair horse riding isn't as accesible as football or netball

Even if a lot of that inaccesibility is down to a perception that it is more expensive than it actually is - it still exists and it still puts people off

I don't dispute that, catgirl, but I refuse to agree that it is only a sport for "rich toffs" when my own life experience tells me it isn't.

I guess it's like anything - those who really want to do something (in this instance, learn to ride) will get off their arses and find a way to do it that doesn't necessarily cost a fortune rather than waste their life whining about "inaccessibility" and "posh toffs". And those who don't want to do it - why waste their energy worrying about it?!

My background:

My dad is disabled (blind) and my mum only worked part-time. They bought me a riding lesson as my 10th birthday present and I was hooked. We couldnt afford regular riding lessons so I was only able to ride once a month or so. I saved up all my birthday and Christmas money over a few years and finally had enough to go on an "own a pony" holiday at the age of 13.

When I came back I got myself a paper round which meant I could finally afford lessons every other week. My parents couldn't afford to contribute a penny, in fact I had to give my mum £5 for petrol for driving me to my lessons (nearest riding school was 25 miles away and not on a bus route).

I left school at 16 with good GCSEs but knew horses were all I wanted. I enrolled at an agricultural college and studied horse care, which meant I got to ride 5 days a week. I went on to work in the equestrian centre of a posh private school, teaching the students and exercising their horses.

I still work with horses, after a fashion, in the horse racing industry. I'm office based these days but would love nothing more than to have a horse of my own. personal circumstances at the moment (not financial) mean that I can't.

To cut a very long story short, I come from a pretty damn poor background and horses were still accessible to me. Don't forget Charlotte Dujardin worked her way up from groom to Olympic rider, it is doable if you have the talent and determination.

[stops waffling & goes to trawl Horse & Hound adverts]

I agree it is not only a sport for rich toffs

Far, far from it

I hope the olympics can go some way to breaking down that idea and getting more young people into a great and reqarding sport (and passion)

but that's not the accusation at all, none of YOU are reading what's being written, i suspect because the chip on your shoulder is obscuring the view.

my question was, how do you feel about the Jennifer Saunders show where it appears to be about rich toffs? which it does.

I haven't seeen it yet but will try and catch it and let you know

I have answered that, actually. Perhaps you didn't read what was written?

oh yes, you did fireandashes, right enough. but then you went on and on and on and on and banged your head against a wall that doesn't exist...

Lots of horses round here, definitely not all owned by people with money.
Several of my friends have horses, they weren't rich, but they were lucky enough to live on farms or know people who did.
My neighbours have horses, I suspect every bit of spare cash goes on affording them.
DFs horse came with her when she was a Postgrad and she managed to find a flat on a farm on the edge of town. He certainly used up all her spare cash.

Lots of people who ride don't own horses, they "share" horses, thus reducing the outlay but still being able to have the riding experience. My best friend has owned a horse since she was 9, but the only way her parents could afford it was for the horse to be "shared" - so someone else rode the horse during the week and livery costs were shared.

My parents couldn't afford even that, so I had riding lessons every fortnight. The stables I went to were very basic and we rode in the park - it didn't cost any more than ballet lessons (or are those somehow seen as élitist and not accessible to all as well?) doing it that way.

Aitch I also answered that question upthread.

Committing the mn sin of not reading all the replies.

I have read the first 300+, some of which seem to suggest that there is little, or no, skill in the equestrian riders. I've been watching the show jumping event, in the modern pentathalon(sp), and the difference between these competitors and the equestrian ones are pretty obvious.

Isn't it awful Chaotic! I'm shouting "Leg! Leg!" at the tv far more than is normal

Cakebump, yes I was referring to pentathletes, I realise the other riders actually had control over their lower leg and didn't tend to have moments when they were hanging on for grim death. .

It's true that most colleges take in students into their basic NC courses who have only had a minimum of a year's experience riding.

If people find it inaccessible and financially unaffordable have a think why. As I have already said THERE IS NO FUNDING AND NO GRANTS!!! Perhaps it's a good time now for things to change here.

Actually it requires supreme fitness training by rider and horse. If you had a riding lesson for half an hour at the level they have, your muscles would certainly ache.
The people who ride and own horses, mostly, can't afford to be toffs. It's as expensive as regular gym membership or golf. Dressage is a pristine sport and the British Dressage Team have worked very hard to get to the top and beat the Germans, Australians, Americans and ALL other world class teams.