To think horses do not belong in the Olympics

[StunningCunt]

They've got this horse prancing sideways with a toff in a top hat on the top, and they are devoting hours of TV coverage because we might get a gold medal in this nonsense?

Why don't they just have a dog show there and be done with it?

Competitive sheep herding?

Motor racing?

In regards to this in particular, yes, I think it is totally on her talent alone. If she was an average rider, there is no way she would be able to ride to the level required, she wouldn't be able to anymore than I could.

I have no interest in the royals in any other capacity, but I don't believe you can deny that Zara is an excellent rider. I have been lucky enough to see her ride at a lower level event (where my friend beat her actually!) and she was no more precious than any other rider (my mate included!).

I feel it is unfair to belittle people achievements just because you don't like/understand the sport. What all the GB equestrian teams have done is brilliant and we could go back to the glory days of the 70's! :)

Yes, I can see that as in most parts of life, it's never going to be completely fair. But somehow the fact that people with royal connections or the financial background to be able to buy a couple of horses should have an advantage, does seem a bit wrong.

I'm still feeling that it's elitist even given the information from all these answers.

and Zara doesnt even sound like a Toff

All sport at the top levels is elitist. Some athletes do have advantages over others, beyond the physical. Whether its money or family connections, its never an entirely level playing field (leaving aside drugs). I personally find all the hothousing, funding and nurturing of junior talent in the UK which has led to a large medal haul a little bit unsporting. As in the aim is to win gold medals, not to compete or do the sport for the sake of the ethos of the sport.

In equestrian terms, I would say coming from a rural background is probably the more pertinent advantage than coming from wealth. On the premise that if you ride a lot of bad horses, it does tend to make you a better, more skillful rider, particularly when things go wrong. But yes, I would agree there is some privelege involved in it. Certainly at the level below that at the top, there are riders who can be reasonably successful at an amateur level on the basis of their families paying for good horses and facilitating them. Its just not possible at the very top level.

I don't know if its any harder to get into than any other sport. In athletics, if you're not a certain shape or build and have run certain times by a certain age, top coaches won't take you on. So pretty much all those children who don't do competitive sports are children are excluded.

To see a member of the RF on the team together with a whole bunch of 'normal' people - from council houses, from middle class families, etc etc would seem more reasonable. But to see her and then other members of the team who apparently come from incredibly wealthy families - Laura Thingy for a start - makes it look like it wasn't really any accident that her talent - however great it is - was nurtured and encouraged and made the most of, from a young age.

I do have a problem with the royal family in the first place, really, so it probably comes down to that - but from a 'normal' person's perspective, that is someone relatively uneducated in riding lore and with no money, and no experience, it all looks like a club for the privileged. It really does. I'm sure there are mitigating factors all over the place but basically there seem to be a lot of people there who are basically only in it because they were lucky, not because they are any more gifted than your average kid from a deprived area.

But is this any different arguement from heaping praise on a Brit such as Bradley Wiggins (tough background but completely closeted and hothoused and given the best bikes, training, coaching, support and funding since a very young junior by the National Squad), beating a Columbian who has had to rely on their skill alone to get them a place on a French cycling team as a youngster, not speaking the language, living away from home with no support, on meagre wages?

Or indeed the privately educated child taken along by keen Olympic athlete to the athletics track at age 8, and recieving the best coaching and training possible, along with a supportive environment?

Or British Triathlon, advertising for 12-14 year olds who can swim 800m in a certain time and run 3000m in a certain time, and then throwing money at them until those who don't fall by the wayside win an Olympic medal?

Jordan is into Dressage

She has lots of oney, access to the best horses and trainers etc

She will never make the Olympics (or even close)

She doesnt have the skill

It is not all about the money - not by a long chalk

Oh - and she is not a toff by any stretch of the imagination!

But not all of the team will be from wealthy families!
You dont need money to ride! With adequate skill and backing, sponsorship will take you far!
Money is an advantage in any sport. But not every sportsman needs to be rich!

Yes, Jordan!

Of course it's not a level playing field. It isn't a level playing for anyon ein any sport- that's why we're so impressed when people succeed against the odds. But just because the odds are with you doesn't mean your success is guaranteed either. It was easier for Zara of course, she didn't have any trouble accessing a pony to learn to ride on for instance- but all she got was more opportunities. It was down to her to take them.

proves the points it's not elitist or about the money

Firstly I think if it is dependant on the training and skills of an animal, it is not partcularly a measure of the human. And how well you can train an animal isn't something I really think qualifies you for a medal in sport.

I don't object to show jumping though dressage looks bloody unnatural for the horse, and incredibly pointless as well. To me it is like a dog show.

This lady said it much better than I did!

I guess this is my point too. At no point did I say (or do I think!) that's it's not incredibly difficult. I just don't see it as an Olympic Sport - it's more Art in my book. :) I'm entitled to my viewpoint regardless of whether or not I've ever tried to do it, surely?! (pretty sure if I did try it, I would find it incredibly difficult and I would still think it's not a sport!)

I don't think Jordan can be said to have the same sort of connections to the top level of the sport as a member of the royal family. There are some things you cannot even buy.

Geegee, yes, it's a similar argument, but I don't think that makes it any fairer. I don't think it's fair that Bradley W had advantages, more than the Colombian athlete, either.

It's a question of it being a certain way, the world is an unfair place. I am saying that this applies to the Phillips situation, too. It doesn't make it right.

What we do about it is another matter. I'm not saying it would be best to keep Phillips out of the team or to stop her competing, or Bradley, but to try and make things more equal - for more children to have the same chances, and for more people from underprivileged countries to have better access to sport, would be a good thing.

I am not trying to say that she did well in the events because she is richer/better connected. Clearly she is a good rider. I just think the fact she is there, having had the facilities to become that sort of rider, is fairly inequitable.

I didn't own my own horse until I was 30.

I was however riding racehorses aged 14 and getting plenty of rides. I worked in stables for free etc., etc. If you've got a natural ability you will get rides.

Elitist? Pfff.

Her name is Katie Price. She may not be Olympic standard but she is a keen rider and she is skilled and the fact that she used to be a topless model is completely and utterly irrelevant. It sometimes feels like nobody can win on MN, the common girl gets trashed and looked down upon and the rich royal girl gets trashed and looked down upon. Why does everyone have to be categorised on this site according to how rich they are and what bloody paper they read?

Emilie you have clearly stated that you know nothing about the sport, so why continue to argue? FWIW I could give you plenty of examples of top equestrian athletes who do not come from rich or privileged backgrounds.

Mary King is competing in her 6th Olympics. She has been top of her sport for years, and stays at the top through an incredible mixture of ability, courage and determination.

Her parents weren't horsey, in fact her father was disabled, and she persuaded the vicar to let her begin riding his pony when she was 6. She worked her way up from the very bottom, taking a job in a professional yard when she left school and being spotted from there.

Why not trying googling round a bit, instead of airing your half baked opinions on here and getting me everyone in a flap?

but every sport will have a similar mix of backgrounds. There will always be sportsmen who have become sucessful from rich backgrounds, because their parents paid for their tuition, and those who struggled to the top from nothing. But the point is, you dont get to be the top, unless you have the talent. The rich sportsmen deserve no less credit because they are rich. They will still have put in the same time and effort.
What you are saying is that competitors with money are less credit worthy, than the poor! Isnt that reverse snobbery?

Sorry, what? I had no intention of upsetting anyone. Are you asking me to leave the thread?

I'm saying its pretty easy to educate yourself, then perhaps your opinion on threads like this would hold more water?

No, Saggy. I'm just saying it seems inequitable.

If my opinion holds no water then please just ignore it. To catch up with you lot on this subject would take me years.

that's why I asked so many questions. It's just that the answers were not very reassuring.

"The rich sportsmen deserve no less credit because they are rich."

This.

Owning and caring for a horse is ball achingly hard work, you may think that all horse owners sit on a cloud reading the daily mail that is held open for them by a servant but it is bloody hard work whoever you are.