To wonder what Black athletes have....

[CrispyCod]

......that make them so superior in performance. It has to be genetic. I am in awe of them as they appear to glide effortlessly around the track. The Jamaican athletes are just wow! Their speed is just amazing.

Haha I think a few have proved you wrong ;) I for one am white and disgustingly bad though but that's because I'm lazy. Oops.

Kungfupanda like I said I think this is interesting, but I think we all know if this had been made regarding people of white skin it wouldn't have been the same would it.

Look up Lia Neal if you don't think people of African American descent can swim.

Just thinking out loud really nursebernard - i was thinking from a genetics view point, nature over nurture but you can never seem to take nurture out of he equation (frustrating - living things make crap scientific subjects, just too many variables!) Of coures, you are right and i am wrong ;)

Like charitygirl I'm shocked that so many people haven't had this discussion before.

Its because of the relative proportion of fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibres (as many others have said).

Populations from some ethnic groups in East Africa have a particularly high proportion of people whose muscle composition and body type enables them to excel in stamina running. Populations from West Africa and west African heritage (black Americans and West Indians) have a higher proportion of people with muscle composition that enable them to excel at sprint.

SGM - "race" is a social construct, but population level genetic variation is not. I don't think you can just call racism on this discussion.

SASHH - Your data point on the Beijing 100m Olympic final is interesting. My guess is that slavery did play a role and can't be ruled out just because of the short timespan. But it is not the sole explanation for the performance of black athletes as some people have stated on this thread. It doesn't relate to East African long distance runners for example.

Creighton wtf

Solesource, i am merely joining in your scientific conversation

Civilised discussion of genetic and cultural difference =/= racism.

StewieGriffithsMom, hey i'm used to it. a couple of weeks ago there was a thread where everyone lined up to tell me how africans, asians, whites (basically everyone) thinks that jamaicans are shit. this is par for the course.

could you please refer back to a racsit comment?

racist even

Because they're bloody good at what they do and train really hard would be my guess....

Viva - my husband's Kikuyu. Yes, they do tend to be shorter, generally, than, for example, the Maasai. He has maasai ancestry (in fact, our surname is a word that meant Maasai, apparently) Several of his brothers are over 6ft. He himself is short and stocky.

You can certainly see physical differences in the different tribes.

creighton, please don't be offended, i think its a valid discussion. At the begining of the olympics there was a discussion which i didn't catch the begining of regarding epi-genetics and "cheating" in sport. There have been a series of about 170 genes (if i remember what he said rightly) that have been discovered that give atheletes (in any discipline i would imagine) an advantage. Epi-genetics COULD be used to enhance the presence of those genes - the question that is bugging the IOC is "is the wrong" and can it be detected? The correlation between race is there - im not really into sports so i couldnt tell you if there are other countries/peoples that tend to excel in other disciplines. But i bet there are - weight lifting for instance, an advantage is conferred if the biceps muscle inserts into the ligament in the forearm further away frrom the fulcrum of the joint - mens tend to do this, so they can lift more, its not just because their muscles are stronger. Obviously when you have a race and the winners are predominantly black, in a world where eveything is equal, you have to look at an evolutionary reason for it. Its not derogatory in any way.

creighton, any chance you could link to that thread?

can we ask why white people are genetically predisposed to winning rowing races? is it because they are lazy and used to sitting down all day?

why is there no great showing in sport from the indian subcontinent, where does their physical prowess lie?

if the asians are so good at gymnastics why do they not win all the gold medals at every olympics?

i suppose some of you are going to say that the american gymnast (black girl) who won the championship is genetically predisposed to winning this event as she is predisposed to swinging through the jungle.

what other scientific gems are you going to come out with now?

Lucy - it's a valid discussion, sure; just not the way some people are discussing it.

I'm still boggling over the notion that the reason there hasn't been much gold won by black swimmers is because it's too much faff sorting their braids out afterwards...

The insight into some people's thought processes via the medium of this thread is, um, enlightening...

So why don't the black british sprinters, many of whom will be of Jamaican descent, do as well as the Jamaicans? Maybe it's just because the Jamaicans work and train harder, or is that too simplistic?

vonnyh i looked for it and it has magically disappeared, ask mnhq to call it up for you.

it consisted of a poster saying that her nigerian friends think jamaicans are dirt, unlike them, i responded robustly, then other posters contributed the views that every other race also thinks we are dirt.

what do you think creighton?

what's your take on this?

creighton, thanks for looking. Probably best if I don't find it, too early on a sunday for me to get too wound up!

The braid thing aside (which is kind of funny, it's so wrong ), as the wife of a black man and mother of a mixed race son, I don't think this thread is racist, in fact it's very interesting, and explains to me why my son is a very good mid distance runner.

He also happens to have competed at international level at rowing, which is kind of odd, maybe.

He's not a strong swimmer, though

Nancy66 "Because they're bloody good at what they do and train really hard would be my guess.... " Well yes, but all atheletes at the olympic level are bloody good and train hard. There will be social reasons for this - i remember that the russians were always pretty unbeatable in gymnastics when i was younger and every girl wanted to be Nadia Commenche (sp).

I think the people who were making the comments regarding the stupid racist comments , were highlighting the ignorance around the subject, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room for an intelligent discussion on the subject. Certain groups of people, will be more susceptable to certain types of cancer, or more resistant - this is due to genetics, they will have polymorphisms in their genome that make them either resistant, those genes are being identified and becoming drug targets. Just the same as genes that make one a better runner, shot putter, are being identified, these will be of medical use im sure.

I take great offence at being called racist because i think this an interesting and valid discussion. It is a bit like being called sexist for saying that men tend to be stronger than women or better at reading maps (except i have an inbuilt sat nav and my DP can't navigate his way to the next town)

I hysteria rears its head.

So its ok for Michael Johnson to make public documentaries on elite Blacks but no one else can talk about it?

Righty ho.