To expect some privacy? IL related

[ivesufferedenoughfools]

I have to say that my ILs are nice people in the main. However, they are very involved with the lives of their DC (my DH and his sibling) and I just find it so overbearing (nosy). We're in our thirties with our own DC but they persist in wanting to know every little detail about our lives, where we've been, what we've been doing. It's like they live their lives vicariously through me, DH and our DC and DH's sibling and partner (who also feels like I do, she is a good source of support).
Conversely, my parents have never been like this so I just can't connect with the constant need for family catch ups/calls/repeated Skype calls so they can see DC (and I mean every day, not like once a week or something). Maybe this is where the problem lies as my family model is very different - though that's not to say I don't get on with my family, I do, just that my parents respect me as an adult in my own right.
So as not to drip feed, the thing that has upset me today is that we have just moved away from the UK. In the short term, until we got a permanent address here, our post had been going to the IL's (for a month max) and they are coming to visit next week and bringing it with them. DH has just had a Skype conversation with his parents and they have opened everything and read it - personal stuff to me, my payslip, everything. We definitely did not ask that they do this. I know they were doing us a favour by letting us use their address for a month but this was all it was meant to be - not a chance for them to go through everything (and we weren't expecting anything urgent so there's no reason for them to do this). We now have a permanent address so are arranging for post to be redirected again but surely they should know it's wrong to open someone else's payslip without their permission? It's pretty obvious when it's one of those perforated envelope things and says the name of my employer on the outside!
And another thing - it feels good to get this out - they are coming here next week. They booked their flights without even asking if it fitted in with us and have just decided to turn up. DH will be in his new workplace all day and can't take time off so early into things so I'll be stuck with them. I don't want them here!!! I have just started to establish a few friendships with some local mums, not easy at times as mat leave here is very short, and I don't want to have to entertain them. To top it all off, we move into our new place next week and I just wanted it to be my little family getting sorted out finally and instead they'll be around in the guise of being helpful but generally getting in the way.
Gosh - super long but thanks in advance for any coping strategies anyone has.

I would attempt to live my life and if they complain say that they did not discuss their visit with you, so need to be understanding of prior arrangements. Even ifit wouldn't have mattered for you to miss the groups, pretend you had a role.

Didn't read all posts and expect its been said, but opening mail is a crime. Just say you don't want them to do it again.

Perhaps because they feel very close to you and their grandchildren and are upset that you've moved away? The post thing would annoy me too but I'd be devastated if my family moved abroad. If they're as clingy as you infer I can understand the need to get away but if I moved my children abroad from their gp's I think the old folks would drop dead with shock.

Hi Spuddybean - my DH just told them they didn't need to have opened my payslip as I get the info online as well. I could hear the call but wasn't in shot (baby was) and DH was talking. What really annoys me is cos I'm on mat leave, the payslip was for zero anyway and his mum started to read it all out, zero in this column, zero in that etc, all fake sympathetic and there's no money here-like. It's none of her bloody business and DH and I took the decision together to use savings to fund me having a year off. I could easily go back to work and earn more than DH if I transferred internationally but there's definitely a view from the ILs that their son (my DH) is the great provider, which until this year wasn't true at all!
There are so many issues here actually, not just the ones I posted initially. I find the atmosphere cloying, they have their own view of the world and this can't be challenged however hard I try. DH is conditioned to their idiosyncrasies I think. He will speak to them about the post but still doesn't really get how mad I am. I feel a bit sorry for him as it's not him but he's the one I'm ranting at.
I love my dog - we moved here for DH's job and they are immensely proud of him so encouraged him all the way. It's not forever anyway. They are fit and healthy and well able to travel. They will still see the DC regularly. I just want visits etc to be on my terms and not have to justify things to them now they know my salary, which will invariably be mentioned as they've read it on my payslip.
There is a part of me considering booking flights back to the UK the week they come over once we've moved most of our stuff to the new place. That would be bad, wouldn't it? Would serve them right tho!

I like spuddy's suggestion

Your husband needs to have a serious word about the post, that's so not on. I would definitely have a chat to them before they fly out too, letting them know you can't wait to see them when they come over but just to let them know you have x, y and z planned and you won't be available those days. Might teach them to bloody well check with you before booking anything!

Well I think those flights have already been booked haven't they? Such a shame they are not refundable and you have arrangements made in the UK.

I would explain to them that you do not wish them to open your post. If they do it after that I would get very upset and angry with them.

I think they ought to be told (ideally by your DH) that it's EXTREMELY inconvenient for them to visit when they are planning to, especially without asking you first -- not to mention incredibly rude! At the very least I would suggest they stay in a hotel rather than with you when you have just moved into a new place. And perhaps send them an email saying how upset you are that they decided to just descend on you without clearing it first and that you cannot possibly cope with them visiting you at this juncture.
Say that they do not have your permission to open any post addressed to you, ever, and that it is again very rude of them to have done so.
If they do not see that there is anything wrong with their behaviour on both counts then unless you stand up for yourself they will continue to walk all over you.

Oh god. Are you me...? My ILs are like this and I really really sympathise. We are also overseas, and I think that kind of amplifies things in a strange way. Like, no weekend visits, they come for 2 weeks. In fact, last time (when they came to meet new baby), we were under the impression they were coming for 10 days. Once they had been here for a few days, it transpired they were actually staying for two and a half weeks. I still shudder at the memory. DH finally admitted weeks later that they hadn't told him either, they just did what they felt like. I think that summarises it, really. It feels like they don't look at us (DH in particular) as adults with our own lives, jobs and family, and think it's perfectly OK do pull a stunt like that. So, yeah, no advice really, but supportive .

I'd be making polite but pointed enquiries via your dh about which hotel they've booked into - because you're obviously going to be far too busy sorting out your new home to be able to host them in any way, shape or form.

Wow, I'd be furious about the mail and I would feel totally claustrophobic with that level of interference. I think you're just going to have to accept they are visiting next week but I'd definitely speak to them about not booking flights in future without checking dates first. Id also be limiting skype calls too if they're not convenient for you. Once or twice a week is fine, daily is too much. Give them jobs to do next week if they say they are coming to help out.
We live abroad too so I understand how much effort you need to go into making friends and building a support network. Try and get out to meet friends as usual if you can. And say to your inlaws that you'll meet them afterwards otherwise the might try and come along with you!

They opened your post and booked flights without checking with you first? Unbelievable.

Your DH has got to be very very firm with them. None of this must ever happen again.

They seem to be treating you both like children. You have got to lay down some boundaries. Really this should be DH's job but if he can't do it you will have to or this will continue. If neither of you can face saying anything on the phone then send an e-mail. It is not convenient for them to visit. If they do want to visit they can stay in a hotel and entertain themselves, you are far too busy getting organised and meeting people. Extra hands would not be helpful at all.

We live abroad and my PIL and parents wouldn't dream of doing any of this. Possibly because I am seriously scary.

I too would be furious with my PIL's for opening my post and booking such a long stay without asking- I too would be dreading it. However, what's done is done, and they may just think they are being helpful with the post (making sure there's no urgent bills etc that need dealing with).

When my PIL do something that I find is an evasion of my privacy, it helps me to get a bit of perspective by working out if my own parents had done the same, would I still be as angry?

Ask your DH to mention to them that they don't need to open any more post, but thank you for letting you re-direct it to them. They're probably really going to miss you, and also if they're paying out for flights want to get a decent visit in rather than a weekend (although we all know that anything more than 3 night stay is an over-stay).

Also, plan in some days out for them when they come to visit, scatter them periodically so that you can look forward to your next opportunity to have a breather. Also, maybe take the opportunity for a couple of nights out with your DH with your PIL babysitting. Also, maybe they could help out during the days, watching your children whilst you run a few new-home related errands.

Good luck!

COuld have some important appointments to attend to whilst they are there so they have to entertain themselves. Though, if they are staying at your house I guess that would be a perfect time for them to rifle thugh your drawers ...

Get some wine in as tu will need it!

Oh dear OP. I really feel for you. My IL's are seriously interfering too. As with yours and theowlworriors they do it under the guise of concern/helping/family but it really is because they don't see you as adults in your own right, just as extensions of themselves so they don't understand boundaries.

I know loads of people of my generation (35) with parents like this. Want to know how much they earn, go on hol together etc. But when i point out they never would have done this with their parents they make out it was because their parents generation didn't love them as much or that it's okay because they are much more knowledgeable/fun/interested etc and their parents were stuffy - but hey they are great so it's totally different (which is just a bollox excuse to be nosy/take over).

Also i can imagine the fake hand wringing of 'oh poor invesufferedenough, look she's not earning anything' under the guise of concern, but in fact it is just pure gossiping. I also hope this doesn't become a 'family' topic of conversation, still pretending to be 'we are all concerned for you'. When i was made redundant IL's kept doing that, but all they really wanted to know was what payout i got and for us to tell them how much our bills were.

Without digressing too much, from my personal experience, i think the baby boomer generation are extraordinarily entitled and cannot see that they can't just do what they want when they want. This may not be the case for you, but as i say, this is the situation all of my friends are in at the moment. I think it's because now we need help longer (living at home, uni etc) that the strings don't get cut in time and the relationships are just left to carry on.

My IL's want to know how much we pay for everything then try desperately to find it cheaper somewhere else. They never do, what they find is a variation, which they think is fine, but it always lacks the exact reason we chose the original thing/service. Then we spend ages justifying why we want the one we want, despite it being a bit more expensive (sometimes we are talking a tenner difference). I have had to send 3 emails explaining why we chose our buggy rather than the 3 second hand ones they bought without consulting us. And don't even get me started on car insurance or our carpet!

Anyway, what to do OP. If i were you I wouldn't go away when they visited. Just an opportunity for them to steam roller DH. I would ensure i was there and challenge them every time they overstepped the mark. I would make sure DH spoke to them about the post and i think i would mention it too. I would also stress that in future they must ask BEFORE booking visits. Then stick to it, if they do it again say they can't come.

Anyway, i've rambled on enough. Good luck OP but stick to your guns. You might as well set the boundaries now. You've already half ripped the plaster off, so you might as well go the whole way!

Spuddy you are so SO right very observant and well articulated post!

Hi OP, just wanted to say I feel similar about my ILs even though they are nowhere near as bad as yours, and are lovely people, but the definitely fit in with spuddy's definition of baby boomers! I am learning to be a bit more selfish when they visit for my own sanity - I used to think it would be really rude to pop out on my own for a few hours to meet a friend when they stay and felt obliged to spend every minute with them for 3 or 4 days, but having witnessed dh's brother's gf do this and receive no criticism, this time (they are coming today!) I am meeting a friend, going shopping and arranging a night out with dh while they babysit, and they are fine with that. They are mainly here to see the kids anyway!

So I second the advice to tell them off about the post, arrange lots of things to do while they visit and use them for babysitting!

I would be arranging for Anne Summers catalogue and products to be delivered

When they hand you the (opened) mail I would go very quiet, look at it, confused, and then ask (innocently) "but why is it open?"

They will then say "oh we thought we should incase it was something important."

Frown, look confused/ upset and say "I'm very shocked to be honest."

Then go on to tell them how this is NOT ON.

Good idea Condensedmilk. If they were worried about something looking important they should have phoned and asked you if you wanted the envelope opening.

If anyone opened my mail without my explicit permission you'd probably have to scrape me off the ceiling with a spatula after I hit the roof.

So. Not. On.

Sounds like DH is a wee bit of a jellyfish with them though, and lets them rumble on doing pretty much whatever they please. It is hard to stand up to apparently thoroughly nice and well-meaning (but overbearing relatives) so some sympathy to him - but sometimes you have to put them in their places, even if it upsets them.

I must admit I would be very tempted to arrange masses of 'important and unavoidable' appointments (even if they were sitting in a park all day with a book kind of fake appointments) during their visit so they saw fuck all of me, DC or DH and their trip was a pretty wasted effort - which might teach them to bloody well consult the people they are planning to stay with in future before they book.

I am a raging bitch though

I would go nuts tbh.

They are way out of order.

I think CondensedMilk has the right idea, do that OP.

Some excellent points made here but I do not think that you should "challenge them every time they overstep the mark". As infuriating as it is, how old are these people? In their late 60's/early 70's I am guessing - you a not going to change them now!! If you have a completely justified go at them every time they annoy you, it is going to be a miserable trip for everyone and damage your relationship with your dh's family. You don't want to end up as "that ghastly woman my son married" and the subject of family gossip. I think you are going to have to pick your battles and personally one of those would be the opening of the post thing - I am shocked that anyone would think this is ok.

On a practical note,are there any touristy things to do in your new area? If poss can you mug up on opening times, directions etc and then present them with a few organised days? Something along the lines of "there is a famous walk/castle/restaurant/museum which I thought you would love to see so I have bought tickets for the two of you to spend a lovely day on Wednesday" or something.

Poor you, this is a tricky one! I partly agree with Pixie, you sound very kind, so opening up a row will probably just cause you more anxiety than you need. Could you get DH to say " thanks for trying to help, but there was no need to open our post, there's nothing to be concerned about!" with a big smile on his face?

On the other hand I would be so angry if my DM or MIL did this to me: would you like me to post a couple of letters to you via them regarding your DH's enquiry about gender reassignment, or your recent enrolment in the church of Scientology? That would give them something to flap about! X

I disagree Pixie, ime if you don't pick them up on it then they carry on and when you do 'pick your battle' they are confused as you let us do x,y & z. Like toddlers people need consistent reinforcement of boundaries.

And if it is a miserable trip then so what? Maybe they need that to learn.

I do agree with the activities tho. I also think you should put away anything sensitive which they may come across while 'helping you tidy up' and limit information. Ie be vague on 'fishing' questions like 'what's the council tax like round here' etc.

I think you should do 3 things:

1. Complain about the post opening, just pointing out that mail is private. If they won't have it, make a point of opening their post next time you visit them, exclaiming loudly some fact or other, maybe a pension value or savings?

2. Meet all the arrangements you've already made. Let them babysit if the meetings you have are not centred around the kids. If you are sorting out the move just leave them to their own devices. Make them aware that you could have had more time for them if it was better planned.

3. TELL them, don't ask, that in future their visits would be much more enjoyable if they were planned in advance with mutual agreement. Do this at the end of the holiday because at that point they'll understand EXACTLY what you mean ;)

I'm sure they mean well and are desparate to see you and the kids, but it seems like they need to learn to respect your needs too.