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AIBU?

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Original poster

To tell her I know they fired her?

74 replies

JessieMcJessie · 31/07/2012 13:12

My dept at work has one boss and I am his right hand woman- he often discusses things with me despite my not officially being in a management role vis a vis our more junior team members (I'm up for promotion very shortly). So far, so good.

We'd been having performance issues with one woman, so boss asked if I'd take her out to lunch to try to get to the bottom of why she wasn't coming up to scratch, particularly as he'd had to be quite harsh with her and their communication was deteriorating. So I arranged that for Thursday.

Then today she did something that was the straw that broke the camel's back for him, so he have her her notice. However he told her it would be totally confidential and nobody else in the team would know, so she could just pretend she had found another job. And now I have to go ahead with the lunch (which I described as being so I could have a chat about how she was getting on generally, as seniors are supposed to do that for juniors anyway). If I cancel she'll know that I know, but it's going to be a total charade. It would be totally U to tell her I know, wouldn't it?

OP posts:
YusMilady · 31/07/2012 13:44

And did either of you ever get to the root of why she was having problems?

RevoltingPeasant · 31/07/2012 13:44

Okay, boss sounds like arsewipe, but that aside -

This is a junior colleague (still!) who has been having serious performance issues. She is now in the nasty position in this jobs market of finding herself a new gig asap. Sounds to me like she needs real mentoring!

Her performance issues are presumably no secret, so, go ahead with the lunch and ask her gently and sympathetically what's been affecting her and offer to talk things through.

This will be kind and useful to her even if she's not staying on - bit like an 'exit interview', which I'm guessing your boss won't offer! And you know, good deeds at work come back to reward you later. She may get on better somewhere else and prove a useful connection.

mayaswell · 31/07/2012 13:45

I'd watch my back if I were you, there's no such thing as an unofficial role. If your boss gets the boot, either up or out, will he take you with him? Or will you be left with a department who don't really trust you?

RevoltingPeasant · 31/07/2012 13:47

And you know, if you do go to the lunch and ask her a kind, general question about how she's doing, she might just open up to you. Then it is her choice and you can help her out with the good advice your tit of a boss apparently can't 'communicate' to her Hmm

Casserole · 31/07/2012 13:47

Postpone it. Don't make another date. Say you've got a dentist appointment. MAKE a dentist appointment, if it helps.

StuntGirl · 31/07/2012 13:49

Has she been on any disiplinary procedures regarding her performance recently? Or has the thing she's done recently been so severe to warrant gross misconduct? It strikes me as odd to just fire someone out of the blue, there are usually specific procedures the company must follow so as not to leave themselves open for unfair dismissal.

strugglingwiththepreteenbit · 31/07/2012 13:51

if she reports to you you can take it as a good opportunity to catch-up with what she's up to ready to hand them on to someone else ans make it a bit of an exit interview/thank-you. Hopefully she'll tell you herself before you go or it will get on to the office grapevine that she's leaving. Wish her luck and be pleasant, you don't need to let on that you know she was fired.

TheLightPassenger · 31/07/2012 13:51

agree with revolting, if you have to go through with this charade, then try and give some good generic advice that might help her in her job hunt. maybe encourage her to think through her achievements in the role, or strengths at work as well as weaknesses.

Mollydoggerson · 31/07/2012 13:52

I think your boss sounds completely unreasonable and a pretty bad manager, and tbh it sounds like you are not much better.

Pair of gossips, the two of you.

StuntGirl · 31/07/2012 13:54

Agreed molly

ViviPru · 31/07/2012 13:55

OP, the lunch will just be an awkward pointless nightmare for both of you.

Why can't you just cancel the lunch on the basis that you are aware she has found another job and is leaving? Surely you don't have to keep your knowledge of that a secret too?

slartybartfast · 31/07/2012 13:56

will she even want to go to lunch with you?

i would postpone

QuintessentialShadows · 31/07/2012 13:57

I would go out for lunch with her, and just general chat with her.

And if boss asks you to report back to him, I would just say "Given that you fired her, and told me to get on with the lunch with her without letting on I knew you had breached the confidentiality with her, I thought it best to just not discuss work issues, and we just had lunch and chatted about life the universe and everything". Report nothing back to him. He has put you in a very awkward position, and if I were you I would not put myself in a position to be involved in any unfair dismissal / grievance case.

I would also start looking for another job....

wfhmumoftwo · 31/07/2012 13:57

SOunds highly unprofessionall all round tbh.

There should be no surprise regarding the reason for any lack of performance as your /her boss should be having regular review meetings with her to discuss any issues (good and bad) and put in place regular, measurable criteria for her to be judged against and any improvement targets set and monitored. He should not expect you to try to get to the bottom of it unofficially - neither should you accept this task.

It is quite usual for PAs etc to know most of what goes on within a team, but this privilege comes with utmost confidentiality.

There is nothing wrong with having a drink with a colleague and asking how she is in general - but/if anything is offered in the way of information from her do not discuss this with your boss.

lovebunny · 31/07/2012 13:58

take her for a nice lunch. tell her that you invited her to ask if there was anything you could do to support her. see what she says. keep it light and pleasant, and don't make any promises. if she cries and asks you to help her keep her job, don't be afraid to say you might not be able to do that, but offer to read her cv, and point out any transferrable skills she might have.

DontmindifIdo · 31/07/2012 13:59

What I would do in your situation - has she officially "resigned to find another job"? In which case, delay the lunch, don't cancel. Then send an e-mail along the lines of: "I hear you're moving on to a new role, how fantastic for you! Do you still want to have our lunch? Happy to still go ahead" And wait to see, she will probably cancel.

Next sit down with your boss, tell him he put you in an akward position and you shouldn't have that information, so could he make sure he doesn't tell you that sort of info in the future.

StuntGirl · 31/07/2012 13:59

Sorry I just saw the two months thing; so not gross misconduct.

What were her issues? What did you/your boss do to try and address them and support her - further training, buddying up with another member of staff, etc? Did you give her a reasonable time to address these issues? How has she responded? Do you have a paper trail to back all this up to HR if needed?

It sounds like your boss is behaving in a particularly unprofessional manner to be honest. In fact this lunch sounds like preciscely the course of action you should be taking to help address and improve her work-related problems anyway.

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 31/07/2012 13:59

Revolting and theLight, that is certainly what I had in mind re offering guidance and mentoring (I once did a job that I think she'd be better suited to), certainly wasn't going to suggest I knew and then be nasty to her. As you say, perhaps she will open up and I'll just have to act surprised. I am a crap actress though. The reasons for the notice period being worked are complicated, same re the grievance procedure. We're not in the UK.

OP posts:
ViviPru · 31/07/2012 14:03

DontmindifIdo makes a good suggestion.

Do you feel that you cannot take this course of action without upsetting your boss?

I just don't get why you can't reveal to her that you are aware she is leaving without letting on you know about her being fired.

YusMilady · 31/07/2012 14:03

Why don't you go to lunch with her and talk to her about setting up in business together in direct competition with your boss? Win-win.

Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 31/07/2012 14:08

I guess that if the official line is that she has "got a new job" maybe she'll cancel on me on the grounds the original stated purpose of the lunch is no longer relevant. But that depends on her being in a suitable frame of mind to act out the fiction when she's still shell-shocked from being given notice.

OP posts:
Original poster
JessieMcJessie · 31/07/2012 14:09

YusMilady- cos she's a bit crap!

OP posts:
Mollydoggerson · 31/07/2012 14:10

The easiest thing to do is just go for a friendly lunch and chat about hobbies and nonsense.

Then learn from it and not get embroiled in management issues when you are not management and when you run the risk of putting yourself in awkward situations.

RevoltingPeasant · 31/07/2012 14:13

OP tbh I wouldn't even bother with the crap actress schtick. I'd take her out, even just for coffee, soon, to help her talk this through. It sounds to me like she's been treated like crap by your boss and sometimes, a sympathetic ear means a lot.

You could just say, 'X, I can see you've been having lots of issues recently and don't seem happy in the role. I used to do Y and I've been thinking that you'd really excel in a career like that. Do you think a career move is an option?'

GetOrfMoiRing · 31/07/2012 14:20

Do you think she may not have been sacked per se, but encouraged to resign (hence the notice period).

It is unusual isn't it to be sacked and then work your notice. Where I work if you are sacked security escort you off and pack your desk when you have left and post it to you.

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