. . . to be really shocked that some people don't know in which years both World Wars began and ended?

[squoosh]

Was saying to a friend at the weekend that I was really shocked when someone I knew admitted that they didn't know in which year WWII began.

The person I said this too then said 'hmmm, was it 1935 that WWII began? I think WWI was 1910'. And this from a really intelligent person too. I thought those were the sorts of dates that everyone just knew. Even if you've never studied history in any capacity surely those dates just seep into your mind via films and tv programmes etc.

AIBU?

Jodie I'm going to have to read that several times to allow it to seep in.

Obviously not.

Oh sorry, I think I'm thinking of a slightly different problem : why are things in a mirror switched side to side but not top to bottom. Maybe it is the same thing? My thinking is that it'a because our eyes are side by side not one on top of another but not thought far enough to decide if I'm right.

squoosh any slowness in seepage can be accounted for by my crap explanation - because actually on reflection* it's such a simple thing I am a bit embarrassed about having bothered posting it

*not intended

We did medicine through time for gcse history instead of, I think ww2.

just because someone doesn't remember the start/finish dates of the WW's doesn't mean they don't know anything about those events.

Indeed Kladda, been to Flanders, took kids to give them a sense of it all. Been to the Anne Frank House. Read loads about Hitler, Churchill, Kaiser W, Archduke FF, Chamberlain, etc, etc. Am vair interested in history.

Just never felt the need to memorise the dates, not that I could. Dates just don't stick with me.

Stealth - they're not switched side to side. They are the same. it's just the way we think of things as having a 'left hand side' and 'right hand side.'

LRD, the Armistice was signed in Nov 1918, which is when fighting ceased. The absolute official end was May 1919, but in popular opinion it It's a matter of opinion whether you choose to see the Armistice or the Treaty of Versailles as the end.

Here you go - it came up in the Guardian 'notes and queries' a while back, and cleverer people than I have explained it.

Yes...I think it all relates to the same thing. But it appears switched to us, whereas it doesn't appear switched over a horizontal line.

(Basically, if ever your child asks you "But Muuuuuuuuuuuum, why are objects reversed side to side in a mirror?" You can just snap "THey're not. Next!" and therefore get out of a long tedious experiment, like my Dad had to put up with, when I was 30 a child.)

I realise not knowing the dates doesn't mean complete ignorance on a subject. I've never actually considered myself to be a dates person.

It doesn't surprise me AT ALL. It's a disgrace though, it really is.

But what I'm getting at, penis, is that you're saying that in the Americans' case, it's rude to date it from when they were fighting, and they should date it from the official start date. But with us, we can date it from when the fighting stops, not the official end date?

I do feel rude with your name, btw, sorry!

Is anyone else's head aching with the mirror stuff?!

Just me?

Oh well.

Next time I'm telling a friend of my shock at another's lack of date knowledge it will go along the lines of 'And can you believe he thought that First Baron's War began in 1210 and not 1215?'

People will fall off their seats in shock.

Oh, ouch, are they two of the most important events? Or do we just think so because they are recent?

Quite right. WW1 and WW2 resulted in about 1.5 million British deaths, approximately 1.5% of the population. 1348 saw almost 4 million, approximately 60% of the poplulation. How many of you judging me for not remembering the war dates remember 1348? A far more significant date in the UK history if you ask me.

Its not the same thing, and its not one country deciding a date, its a matter of opinion across lots of different countries. Especially since the end of a war is much less clear cut than the beginning. We know exactly when both wars started. When they ended is less simple, did it end when everyone put their guns down and went home, or when the official business was concluded? Most people consider the former, across many nations.

Oh, sorry, that grin was to squoosh. I now look as if I'm taking the piss, which I wasn't kladd.

I'd forgotten the Black Death, actually, which is pretty unforgiveable since I spend my life in the fourteenth century.

It's natural we focus on the recent stuff, but not shocking that it will gradually change when people who remember the world wars aren't with us any more.

YABVU not to automatically assume hoi polloi are both thick as mince and ignorant to boot.

PVL - ah, ok, I see your point.

I hadn't thought of it as being especially a problem to date wars differently, but I do follow you now. Thanks.

The black death didn't have a definitive start date though.

Well because of the issues of the ww's i don't really see them as separate. Just 1 war which had a lull in fighting for a period. I also take into consideration the build ups/causes to situations, so for me/the way i learned History at University there isn't a strict start and end to anything - just an organic developing rotation.

Nothing is in a vacuum, and this is how i was taught history.

I think GCSE is much more date oriented which is why i didn't do it. So if the wars were in the GCSE curriculum then everyone who didn't opt for GCSE history wouldn't have learned them.

The understanding of social history and the impact does not change if you do or do not know the exact date of something. Knowing circa is fine imo.