To think that the attitude to older people, particularly older women on Mumsnet .....

[seeker]

......is utterly shameful, shows mumsnetters in a very bad lightand should be challenged more and harder?

"in real life older people are not respected just because of their age. why should it be any different here?"

I'm not expecting people to be respected because of their age. I am expecting them not to be disparaged, mocked and discriminated against.

I spent my mid twenties up to my neck in nappies with 3 under 5 and honestly felt fully grown up, knew all there was to know about 'life' and even 'old' by the time i got to 29.

Now i know that's tosh

I think 60, on paper, still seems like a big number. But i know it isn't old any more. When i see people who are indeed probably in their late 50s and over working hard and/or in positions of power i don't honestly think about they're age.

I would hazard a guess and say that 'old bat' comments here (and in RL) are made in anger and without thought in much the same way that racist comments used to be made without thought (and would even have been unchallenged not too many years ago).

It's fair to say that it is unnecessary to say 'elderly person' unless it's relevant to the post.

Agree with lovebunny.
It is not personal.

I am probably younger than you,but old age things will happen to us all.
We have to roll with it.
You are not going to educate the posters on MN who are determined to offend.

I feel it a bit at work you know. My team, with one exception, is under 30 and the number of times I have to bite my tongue is amazing; I think the difference is, I have learnt to bite my tongue. Given time and few more knocks they will too - I wish they didn't have to take the knocks but it isn't my place to set them straight. If it's very serious I might just say let's have a coffee and try to steer them off a sillly course but I can't say they're stupid - they've told me a few times though (in a nice way - I am the boss )

Cor, this thread's a real eye opener. I have always thought Nanny Ogg was a character from Ben and Holly's little kingdom, but NO! Now I'm going to have to order my first ever Terry Pratchett to look at for curiosity's sake.

Agree with you seeker. It's not that older people on here are being treated badly, but the attitude expressed about older people in general is pretty poor. And as someone who is ageing rapidly it makes me feel fairly uncomfortable at times.

marriedinwhite, i know where you're coming from!
my small team are 24, 25, 25 and 36. i was thirty when my youngest departmental colleague was born. two out of the four treat me like a human being, the others don't, they're of the opinion that older people know nothing. sometimes the age difference really shows, in cultural references.
in the wider workplace, there's a woman with only slightly higher status (same role, bigger department) who virtually pats me on the head whenever she speaks to me. she's got to be forty if she's a day!

I would hazard a guess and say that 'old bat' comments here (and in RL) are made in anger and without thought in much the same way that racist comments used to be made without thought (and would even have been unchallenged not too many years ago).

Exactly-the difference is that you can do the casual ageism and not get challenged. It appears to be OK.

I haven't seen it as such except on the thread about the 3yo going to GP's for the night.

But I don't agree with older person bashing. My parents are late 50's early 60's. I don't see them as old and they are fab with DS - and more than able to look after 1 child having raised 3! They now have another GC under 1 who they will look after 1 day a week whilst my sister works soon.

Fred abou fred? How..., oh never mind.
D'you know, my mother complains about two forms of ageism:

1. "you're thick, cos you're old"
2. "you're making it up about that condition, 'cos you're not old enough"

She says she particularly gets number 2 from same age peers. Yes, you lot, it's lovely that you're members of the healthy majority. But if any of you see my mother or someone like her trying to get around, please try and get over yourselves long enough not to give her grief about it. When she says "I can't lift that" she can't. Even though you can, and she's far younger than you.

"I would hazard a guess and say that 'old bat' comments here (and in RL) are made in anger and without thought in much the same way that racist comments used to be made without thought (and would even have been unchallenged not too many years ago). "

Exactly. My point exactly!

search for 'old biddy' or 'old bat' and over 500 discussions come up each time!

I agree with seeker. I'm always amazed at the casual assumptions some posters make that decrepitude starts at age 50. It's bizarre- a large proportion of people in top jobs in commerce, media and government is over that age (perhaps they think that explains something). They're either dim or have astonishingly preternaturally aged relatives.

However, I think that these views are very often challenged. Certainly, when I've noticed someone say something ageist on a thread and thought I must respond to it, I've always scrolled down and seen that another poster already has.

My mother is in her early 70s, very fit and with it, but she complains at how as she gets older, she is more often ignored or patronised by people she comes across, especially in retail, or when trying to deal with officialdom. It tends to be, she tells me, 'a certain sort of person' whom she defines as 'officious and not very bright'. (and before you all slag off my mother for saying such a thing, she is not nasty, but a very nice, gentle person. She is just describing her experiences).

It's ok raspberry - i was a bit when i saw this pop up earlier.

In fact it's an interesting thread. I am actually interested in what age the random general perception of old is. And where this 'old bag' thing is coming from. ANd why people think it's ok to use 'old' as an insult.

I would have imagined most that most people from 25 and up would have put 60 at 'starting to slow down'. Given the many examples we see of fit 'older' people in the media and in our lives. Not 50.

"Cor, this thread's a real eye opener. I have always thought Nanny Ogg was a character from Ben and Holly's little kingdom, but NO! Now I'm going to have to order my first ever Terry Pratchett to look at for curiosity's sake."

A very wise move droppedscones. Order 2 - they get better as they progress.

And you were thinking of Nanny Plum btw.

Sorry for the fred drift - it's my age...

And to be serious.
I am not yet 60, but I do find looking after my DGC tiring. To be fair, so does their mum!
I do think it is down to each individual to decide what they are capable of - but they have to be honest.
On a previous thread re GPs caring for DGC rather than a nursery, I did feel that the 70+ GP with the dodgy knee was not an ideal candidate.

I am older & have no clue what you mean

I have been set upon for disagreeing though, but thats nothing to do with my age, but my opinion - besides I know when the nit picking & red pen come out - they don't have a solid return argument anyway, so it makes me

Sometimes people are genuinelly 'old bags' but that doesn't mean that all old people are old bags. I agree that most comments like this are directed at a specific person who has done a specific old bag type thing rather than a general view of all old people. Just like comments made about MILs are usually aimed at one particular MIL and one particular MIL action rather than a general comment about all MILs. I am sure most of us realise there are normal old peolpe and normal MILs.

I'm 55 and no one is horrid to me. I do sometimes despair about some things that seem prevelant now that were not when I was younger -

1. People seem to have an obsessive interventionist attitude to parenting and think that their child's life will be ruined forever if theydon't BF/arrange endless activities/ plan and organise every last minute of their child's day. I don't see much wrong with the way I was brought up when children were expected to make their own entertainment and spent most of the day playing outside.

1. Dogs have to be perfectly behaved or face being PTS - when our pets used to bite us ( and when the dog next door took a chunk out of my brother's nose) it always seemed to be our fault.

Another thing that often pisses me off is when someone on S&B says they are 34 and are they too old for skinny jeans/short skirts etc etc.

Is this about Paul McCartney?

I'm with seeker on this one. I have often noticed people saying "wrinkled" or "saggy" or even "greying" as terms of disparagement on here. It would rightly not be acceptable to use words describing racial appearance in this way, so why should it be ok to use terms describing physical aging as if they were words of abuse? This is especially annoying since everyone ends up grey and wrinkled unless they choose to alter their appearance artificially, which is completely fine but surely not morally preferable to the alternative; it's your own futures you are disparaging, you smooth young glossy people!

Well, for a bit of balance, I've just read a thread where someone says that the OP sounds 'entitled', 'rude' and 'young'.

And I agree that there isn't one 'Mumsnet attitude'.

When I see the phrase 'Old biddie' I picture someone upward of 75, probably older, on a bus, with one of those waterproof covers on her head - clearly a stereotype but just to illustrate that I'm thinking of someone genuinely elderly.

I certainly do not imagine that posters are referring to over 50s when they say something like that. And I think I'm on the young side of the MN demographic.

Mainly two types of thread that get me mad - 1. The old, smelly ladies who should be shot dead because they touch a baby's cheek or grab a seat on the bus. 2. The 'baby boomer' generation who did nothing but sit on their arses and now have a decent sized house. I could scream!!!