To wonder if people who slate the NHS so much

[FutTheShuckUp]

Would find it so much better living in counties without it?
Sure it's not perfect but I just don't get the amount of vitriol which is aimed at the NHS at times

I think the NHS is something to be proud of. Of course it is imperfect, and will become increasingly more imperfect as the Tories rip into it but what system isn't? At least here if a loved one gets a terminal Illness you don't have to think about if you can afford to keep them alive much longer. Sure, private healthcare is great if you can afford it, but I'd prefer to live in a world that also cares for those that don't, rather than one that operates a two tier system for the haves and have nots.

no wonder the NHS is in such a mess,only last week a MNer was asking why she couldnt get Pro-biotics on prescription and felt this was unresonable

yeah gods

voluvont I was going to say that maybe its to do with the area you live in but then I have been treated in many hospitals in many places around the country.

Maybe its to do with the type of medical help you need - but then I have used it for a lifelong disease, having babies, fertility treatments, emergency treatments for my children and a whole host of other nondescript illnesses.

So that leads me to conclude that I have indeed been either very lucky (given that I have lived as far north as Preston and as far south as Wiltshire in my 50 years) or that I have realistic expectations of a fantastic service that has never let me down.

Surely we only ever hear of the problems and not of the millions of successful people that they treat every day.

I do think a lot of people's problems with the NHS is them forgetting that they aren't always the priority of the staff as they have other patients to see.

Last time I was in a and e with DS a mother complained her child was still waiting to be seen dispite having come in an ambulance and "that boy was carried in and is going straight through"

That boy was a 2 year old having an asthma attack and needing urgent treatment, her son had fallen down two steps and twisted his ankle.

It's definately not perfect. In the last 2 years I have lost a sister and my mum. Both deaths were in some way affected by NHS shortcomings. Sister had undiagnosed lung cancer. Mum had a heart condition which took an age to diagnose and even longer to go on waiting list for treatment. In the end she was turned down for the op. She than had a massive bleed on the brain following a fall which local hospital failed to take seriously. These falls had been a regular occurrance for many years but no one colud confirm why she was having falls although I suspect it was related to her heart conditon.

I would LOVE to live under the French, German or even Swiss system, so YABU.

That toe-curlingly awful bit in the opening Olympics ceremony proved that there are people in the UK who treat the NHS like a religion, no matter how many people it abuses and mistreats. In my experience (which is extensive - I have had cancer treatment and have a chronic condition) it is average at best, and downright disgraceful at worst. And it certainly isn't free! The poor healthcare here is one of the reasons we are looking to leave the UK - with a lower tax burden, private healthcare becomes more affordable, and frankly it's in a different league.

I thought the French system was suffering from massive debt problems even before the global crisis - has this been stabilised?

The extent to which sentimentality about the NHS prevents honest, clear-sighted discussion of its failings makes me very angry. A lot of pious wank about how marvellously moral we all are for having this sytem which translates as "it's done alright by me, and I'm not hugely interested in listening to those who have had a different experience."
I am fortunate in having one GP - out of about 8 - at my local practice who is knowledgeable, compassionate, and crucially does not patronise me but gives me information in an adult manner for me to make my own decisions. Most of my other NHS expereinces over certainly the last decade have been bloody appalling.

NarkedRaspberry Sat 28-Jul-12 12:07:09
A big problem in the NHS is private sector involvement.

Yes, but not in the way you are suggesting.

PFI.

Why are we spending billions on facilities that we could have put through the government books in a different way and cost us a fraction of the price? The result has been cutting of healthcare because effectively instead of paying an interest rate on a sensibly agreed and sustainable bank loan, we decided to stick it on a payday loan with an astronomical interest rate.

So, I reserve every right to bitch about the NHS when stuff is inexcusably going wrong, given appalling management decisions that a blind monkey could have predicted when they were first made.

In the area I work, I saw figures for a new hospital back in 2004. They were unbelievable and it was clearly a disaster waiting to happen, even then. The Trust is now in financial trouble and needed a bailout to help it meet its PFI commitments. Its a national fucking disgrace.

Just as its the NHS does not mean its above reproach or not accountable. And yes I AM a customer of the NHS as I pay for it. Just because my payment method is a certain way, doesn't mean I'm not a customer and can not complain about the level of service I'm getting.

If it was a private company, and I pissed my share holders money up the wall in the way the NHS has, head would roll and people would loose their jobs over a great many of the decisions and management of the NHS that have happened in the last ten years. Instead they are still in jobs and still making the same mistakes as its the precious NHS.

The doctors and nurses are paying the price for it. However even then compassion and kindness costs nothing. I know from experience there are professionals working in the NHS who lack this; I don't buy into blaming it on stress etc - its happening across the board - again because of this ridiculous notion that staff working in the NHS are somehow saintly and above reproach and we should be made to feel guilty or small whinging children by people like the OP if we do complain.

Lets make this perfectly clear. We should not be comparing our health care with X, Y and Z country. We should be comparing it with countries with similar GDPs, similar values of social inclusion and similar lifestyles. Which to all intents and purposes limits it to a few countries in Western Europe. If our health care is in any way behind those nations, then we should be taking the attitude of "how can we improve things" rather than taking the attitude of "Oh we should all be grateful how we don't live in the US or a third world nation and we should just put up with problems".

That attitude is a one way track to a second rate system that isn't forward things and isn't striving for the best out there. If thats what you want, you keep saying we can't criticise the NHS.

Otherwise, keep bloody complaining and actually do stuff to resolve the problems instead of putting up with piss poor excuses and piss poor management.

I agree and would like to add that if people (not particularly this op but the hundreds of others as well) actually invited useful dialogue such as setting up local fundraising for scanners and air ambulance, or raised awareness about patient groups, volunteering or joining NHS Trust boards, rather than goading or challenging anyone to say anything to the right of their own political ideals, it would be more valuable.

I think that the NHS is brilliant in an emergency, and without doubt it is fantastic that when faced with life threatening illness we know we can get treatment.

however, for lesser things it is showing the signs of there just not being enough resources to give really good care.

I've heard politicians argue that there should be a mix of private and state healthcare, and it seems like the practical way forward. e.g. for small scale stuff, have insurance or pay the cost of a visit, and the same for prescriptions. For 'big' stuff, have free care.

Of course, there would always be arguments about where the cut off should be, but there will always be arguments about healthcare.

Actually you can't always get treatment. My DP got wall to wall bugger all for almost TEN YEARS and he had a BROKEN NECK.

There is a hole in his spine. He is now paralysed from the neck down and there's nothing anyone can do. NOW there's nothing. The NHS told him he was a junkie after opiates. He got nothing. Not even a wheelchair. They left us to rot with nothing for years and years and years.

If you think that's a flame you have something... I don't know. This is what is wrong with the NHS. All these smug fucking comments about how you're alright jack and some people just want the world. I never wanted the world. We couldn't even get an X-Ray.

HmmThinkingAboutIt, I'm so glad you made this comment. I missed it before. I have to leave this thread now before I have a stroke, but I, yes. Thank you. xx

The NHS is understaffed, under-resourced...

Just...

I'm absolutely stunned that anyone would think that. We spend a frankly ludicrous amount on the NHS in relation to the quality it produces.

If the NHS was a listed company, managers would have been lined up against a wall and shot at dawn over the way some of its vast funds have been squandered.

There are undoubtedly many, many fantastic medical and support staff working in the NHS but that doesn't mean it's run particularly well.