To wonder if people who slate the NHS so much

[FutTheShuckUp]

Would find it so much better living in counties without it?
Sure it's not perfect but I just don't get the amount of vitriol which is aimed at the NHS at times

The problem is that the NHS was created in a Britain that was very different to the Britain of today. You can't have socialised medicine and open borders. It just doesn't work. It needs to be drastically reformed if it is to survive.

I thank God for the NHS. I spent 52 days in ITU last year and one of the nurses told me that the average cost for a patient in ITU is £10,000 a day. That on top of my 3 weeks on a normal ward plus months afterwards of physio, district nurse and midwife visits. I cannot even imagine what the final bill would be.

"Sure it's not perfect"

When it comes to life and death it has to be perfect. Too many of us have hade either ourselves, friends or relatives come to actual physical harm for 'sure it's not perfect' to ring pretty hollow. Today we expect service excellence whether we're ordering a pizza or getting a telephone installed. In the 1940s it was enough for heathcare just to be free. In 2012 it isn't.

yanbu op

we are very lucky IMO

i do think people expect to much from the NHS,and thats becoming its down fall

I see it as something that should teach us humanity and respect. Everyone works and pays into the pot to help our fellow citizens, and citizens who may not be able to afford treatment otherwise.

I am so grateful that we have the NHS. That I can ring an ambulance in an emergency and they will come and treat me straightaway without asking for cash or insurance papers. That I can visit a GP for free and don't have to stay at home, hoping I'll get better because I can't afford to pay.

People aren't just left to die? Really?

This says otherwise.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9432219/Baby-dies-after-Indian-hospital-removes-her-from-incubator-over-2.30-cost.html

I worked in the nhs for years many of those as a senior sister. It has it's faults yes but for the size and scale of it it is incredibly efficient and staff work at 200% most of the time. I'm now in education and by comparison it's wasteful and much less efficient.

I love the NHS, even though my pay has been messed up and DH may be out of a job due to centralising services. If healthcare abroad is so preferable why do I see patients who live abroad but come to the UK to have their op and receive all of the aftercare. Surely if it was that awful they'd have it done in the country they emigrated to?

On holiday in Kent my dd had a painful ear infection so I took her to the nhs minor injuries clinic Ok we waited an hour as a girl in front had broken her elbow but we were offered drinks snacks and then once inside the very kind nurse gave my dd 2 bottles of calpol/nurophen AND a teddy bear to take home with her all FREE. I was bowled over I only hope Dave Cameron was watching the Olympic ceremony and felt some pride in the nhs too!!!

At least I have actually lived in the world and have something to compare it to. Why bother arguing when I agree.

Have you lived uninsured and needed medical treatment in those countries?

If not then you do not know what you are talking about.

But the NHS is NOT free!!!

Actually, when comparing the cost of healthcare in different countries, people pay in average the same amount when you add the taxes and anything that you can also pay 'privately' (ie health insurance, things you pay for yourself, let's say braces for your dcs etc...).
The difference between the UK and countries where there is 'free' NHS type of system is that the poorer people can have access to healthcare when they Woody's not otherwise be able to afford as much as that (eg the US).

It has nothing to do with the people working n the NHS, some of which are great or even the way the NHS is run (which could be much better run) or the fact that you will get some care when you need it (but care will depend on your post code) etc...

I don't think we are 'lucky' as such because we are ALL paying one way or the other into the pot that allows US to pay for medicines, staff etc...

I think for me where the NHS really comes into it's own isn't emergency care - most countries will sort out a true emergency in some way or another, it's chronic care. I have a chronic condition which I was diagnosed with at 19 and will be lifelong. Here I have treatment for life which I pay minimal costs towards (prepayment cert) and my main drugs I don't pay anything towards (injections delivered straight to me). Meds will prolong my life expectancy, reduce my chances of permanent disability and generally stop me being in horrendous pain and enable me to look after myself, my son and work.
I have friends around the world with the same condition that cannot get insurance and cannot afford treatment. Friends in the US who have got onto free drug trials to then have the meds whipped away from them, Medicare etc doesn't cover these drugs or the monitoring that is required to make use of them safe so they have to make choices - education or health, food or health, family or health,- pretty crappy 'choices' when you can't afford them. And when you can't afford them you aren't well enough to work, look after your families or sometimes even yourself - people are left unable to contribute to society or get a job where they might get some insurance which would pay for the drugs. Some people also buy drugs (dodgy & real) over the Internet and don't monitor them (these are highly toxic and dangerous drugs)
Due to the expense of these drugs many countries cap there use (so friends in Aus having difficulties with this) whereas here if it demonstrates a benefit ie it's still controlling my disease (which is monitored) I can have it for life & all the treatment & monitoring provided with it for free.

YABU the NHS is not free, it is paid for out of tax revenues. I don't understand the NHS love-in that many people seem to have, it is a pretty average universal healthcare system nothing more nothing less.

I love the NHS but it isn't faultless the two biggest problems for it are management and the public misusing it.

We seem to be at a point where people take it for granted so people use its services inappropriately meaning the gps/emergency care service ends up very stretched so people complain they can't get an appointment or have to wait a long time

The nhs is an amazing institution, but excessive micromanagent is resulting in a reduction of the care given IMO. Too many targets, too many managers, committees, meetings etc resulting in not enough funds to pay enough staff to do the actual treating of patients!

I agree Sirzy!

I am 51 years old and have had a medical condition that I have been treated for all of my life. I have had numerous stays in hosptial (totalling years of my life), outpatient appointments, specialist appointments. In addition to that I had 15 years of fertility care and treatments.

I have never had a bad experience with any nurse, doctor, GP, red tape, outpatients, addmissions - not ever.

But to a certain degree I feel that thats because I am realistic in my expectations of the NHS and the people who work there. Sure I have had to wait for referrals at times, have spent many hours waiting for late appointment times and had staff who are overstretched. But I have always been seen and always been treated.

In any huge organisation there is wastage of money and resources and things that go wrong but when you think about how may people use (and those who abuse) the system its a pretty good deal really.

I think we are very lucky to have free (ok not actually free but 'free at point of service') healthcare. We could not possibly afford anything else.

Very small scale example here so nothing compared to others on this thread, but in my town we got a new walk in GP service (open 8-8 7 days a week except 25th Dec) a couple of years ago. (There is already an urgent treatment centre in the town hospital for more-pressing-but-not-quite-A&E cases)

Before this if you had something wrong that wasn't urgent you obviously had to wait for a regular GP appt which could take days or weeks. Very frustrating. This new centre has improved my life - eg I got tonsillitis several times and was able to get ABs and return to work very quickly. You don't need to sign up, they just send your consultation notes to your regular GP.

What gets to me is that every time I'm there, people are complaining about waiting times, at least one person storms off in a huff. And every single time somebody will complain that they can't join the waiting list, leave (for food or whatever) and come back later I mean WTF? Yes, waiting a couple of hours is not great, but it is less than they would wait at the urgent treatment centre, and compared to the week or more they would have to wait for the regular GP surely a couple of hours is nothing? We didn't even have this service two years ago, and many towns have nothing like it, so we are really lucky, it makes me sad that some people don't appreciate what we have.

I think YABU to set up an artificial either/or. It is perfectly possible to look at health economics and service delivery over time and in the face of changing demographics and likely health needs and look for the best way to provide and fund services.

One could easily make NHS look dire by cherry picking the examples of where it has failed badly. It would be wrong not to look at such cases to establish the reasons and see what, if anything, should be changed to minimise the chances of such heartbreak occurring again. And imprudent to assume unlimited finance in any system.

When people can hardly afford vet bills then how can you even claim a paid system would be workable. This way everyone gets the same treatment. Regardless of age or status even a non Brit can come here for a few days and get the best treatment should they fall ill or have an accident. Amazing.

YABU. I disagree that we should "put up or shut up" where the NHS is concerned. It could do a whole lot better and while it helps in many cases it also fails, often.

While I appreciate the NHS, I really don't understand how it can be heralded as something amazing. It's not. It's just the system that we have. And because we have this system, private healthcare is more expensive than it needs to be.

Personally, I have benefited from the NHS, but then I think I could have benefitted more, at times when it really really mattered if the NHS didn't insist on being free for all at the point of service. In debates like this we underestimate how debilitating being stuck on waiting lists for months on end can be. The waiting lists for certain operations and procedures are truly ridiculous, and it's not always much comfort to know that eventually you will get the treatment you need. Especially because when you do get that treatment, it is not the best available because your are being treated by doctors who have to keep costs down and who are still in training.

I'd much rather see a health service where we pay a little more, employers contribute, and the standard of care is better. Especially for certain services. I think we should all pay a set fee for maternity care for example.

We are too conditioned into thinking that the NHS is the only way things are done, but as my dh has had to have exactly the same procedure on the NHS and then privately, and the difference in the level of care and the quality of the care is frightening.

YABU you're not referring to the NHS, you're post is about universal healthcare. The NHS is not the only method of delivery of universal healthcare and you are being highly disingenious by suggesting that it is.

nokidshere I think having no bad experiences with the NHS is more down to luck than being "realistic in your expectations".

I've had a number of bad experiences which could have been avoided and it was due to mistakes, insensitivity, dishonesty and more.

"If healthcare abroad is so preferable why do I see patients who live abroad but come to the UK to have their op and receive all of the aftercare."
Because they can have it done here for free? Which is one of the reasons why the NHS needs to be reformed. "health tourists" should not be able to use it.