for reporting my manager

[Jillyhere]

Advice very much appreciated. I work for an educational establishment. Last month we had a training session on managing students who mis-behave. My manager who i've always suspected was a racist made the following comments "the reason ethnic minorities hang around so much after class is because they know if they return home they will be forced to work in their shops". This was not said as a joke. Indeed, there were fifteen members of staff present, including someone who originated from the West Indies. This individual was rightly upset, hence, my decision to report the manager in question. The fact that he wasn't joking disturbs me even more.

I would like to ask those far clever than me whether or not I was correct in reporting this individual. Deep down, I know this statement is wrong. However, I find myself questioning myself. I'm afraid I am new on here, butr can assure you my concerns are very much genuine. If the matter is dismissed, who can I go to?

Also maybe the kids are telling him they have to work excuse for not doing courseworkto play the sympathy card. I knoW if you asked my 9 year old wether he does chores he would say he is always doing chores and never gets time to play ( he does about ten mins of jobs a day unload dishwasher etc). Mayb the kids have given him this misguided perception

It's very difficult to interpret the written word - with out hearing tone, deciding whether it was factual or malicious, or indeed sweeping generalisation, then factoring in whether the school catchment is in a highly populated area of (I'm caught for words here) ethnic shopkeepers.

O/T can I just say I hate having to pussy foot around for fear of offence? Can I put it my own way?

Right, if the OP was teaching in Tower Hamlets with high Bengali populace, where there are a lot of family business, and her manager said 'The Bengali kids all hang around etc etc' then I might cock an eyebrow BUT if he knows those childrens backgrounds because they do have to contribute to the family business and it is a factual statement then, he's not in anyway being racist.

When I tutored, many years ago, all - yes all - of the Bangladeshi chIldren left class and went straight to the family business, shops or cash and carries. Not racist to say so - just a statement of fact. We held classes later to allow them to work late and still attend the next day.

FWIW, I wouldn't go down the whistle blowing route. Totally inappropriate.

agent I agree. I often comment that the West African children are a delight - they are - does that make me racist for singling out 'a type' even though it's a positive comment?

it might be more of an observation than a racist comment. i'm not excusing racism, but its better to give people the benefit of the doubt. and for some pupils, no matter what their heritage, the only break they get from their domestic responsibilities is the time they get at school, so yes, they hang around for a while, to have some kind of life of their own.

in my twenty years of teaching i've heard some terrible things ('these .... will never get anywhere', 'your family are only in this country for the benefits!') and i've seen a lot of people (including the ones who made those comments) give, give and give to help people from all the ethnic backgrounds they meet in their work.

marriedinwhite. Thanks. I fear you may be correct. I only did what I thought was right.

Indeed lovebunny. I work in a very multicultural environment and it most certainly is not only the non ethnic staff who every make inappropriate comments. We are all difference, we all have views and opinions and the world and the UK in particular would be a much poorer place if comments that were not intended to cause offence but have been perceived as doing so were not viewed with tolerance and patience. We all have something to bring to the table and providing there is no malice or intent to upset then what is brought is often what is most valuable. Of course we can all reflect and learn to put things as tactfully as possible but it doesn't require a formal complaint to achieve that, nor should it.

I hope the OP never makes a mistake.

My problem with the comment is the level of generalisation and stereotyping of ethnic minority children. I know plenty of Asian parents who don't own shops. Now that I think about it my North African DH doesn't own a shop neither do his friends. I really struggle to believe that every single ethnic minority child in the school is forced to work in a family shop.

Thanks everyone. I asked the question and now i've got the answers. I'm beginning to think i've made a mistake. My excuse is that I thought I did what was in my mind correct.

Jillly can I give a bit of advice please. Go and see the person you made the complaint to and say you have reflected and that you want to withdraw it and wish you hadn't made it and that you have learnt from it. They will probably think rather highly of you if you do.

Just reading back on your OP - this - no one picked up on My manager who i've always suspected was a racist - why would you think that? There's clearly more than you've said.

But in all honesty, if comments are factual, then you may not like the fact that some things conform to sterotype, but in reality they do.

the whole asian shopkeeper thing (round here) is a bit of a misonomer these days. That stopped in the 90's when the 2nd and 3rd generations had bigger aspirations than a family franchise of Londis! Now (sweepiing generalisation coming ) they are all doctors/accountants/lawyers/pharmacists!

Yeah i think marriedinwhite has given good advice there.

WTAF

I'm in total shock at the some of the responses on this thread.

The comment was "the reason *ethnic minorities" hang around so much after class is because they know if they return home they will be forced to work in shops".

Assumption (a) - all ethnic minorities (i.e. non-white) come from families that own shops

Assumption (b) - all ethnic minority parents value their profit from said shops over their children's education.

Assumption (c) - all ethnic minority parents force their children to do things against their will.

Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels. I can't even be bothered to deal with the complete lunacy of those assumptions - it should be blindingly obvious to any normal educated person.

Jesus Christ, MN used to be a place where I could hide from the stupidity and institutionalised racism so prevalent in mainstream society. OP - you did absolutely the right thing to raise this as an issue. The only thing I disagree with is the whistleblowing aspect - there's no point expecting that your employers will find this attitude abhorrent (as demonstrated by the opinions on your thread). It would have been more useful in the long run to either challenge his assumptions then and there (although I can understand why you didn't do this) or raise it with his line manager as a training issue.

Cash and carry, you are OTT. No wonder some think that cries of racism are nit ti be taken seriuosly. You do me no favours.

Cashncarry the person in question made a generalised comment but is it really racist? If the teacher said that to the students themselves would they be offended?

I understand it was a stupid comment but I don't think it warranted the action taken. Have you NEVER made a comment about another culture. I know I've said things like "I've heard that travellers homes are immaculate" does that make me racist?

Yeah ok cashncarry, thanks for that

Frankly solesource - I couldn't give a shit if I do you any favours or not. I categorically would not want my children to be taught by the sort of person that peddles this kind of racist bullshit. I had enough of it growing up. Clearly there was another person present at that meeting who was offended by his comment so at least I know I'm not alone in my allegedly hysterical reaction.

You (along with any other poster who agrees with you) can throw all the "playing the PC card" comments you want - it's not going to stop me fighting this sort of casual racism all day every day until my dying breath.

You need therapy. Totally OTT.

I obviously have read a completely different dictionary when it comes to a definition of the word "racism" from the rest of you.

In my mind, a racist comment is one which generalises in a negative way. The comment was offensive not only because it generalised about all ethnic minorities but because it had negative connotations about the way those parents raise their children.

So no - a comment about all travellers having immaculate homes would not fit that bill.

But you're happy to make that sweeping statement yourself cashncarry, even when you're also not aware of the whole facts. Good on ya then, with ya pc gone crazy

There was a time on MN when one could have a reasoned discussion on racist issues albeit with the odd swear word tossed in for good measure!

Being told I need therapy because I disagree with your point of view is not, in my humble opinion, the best way to win your argument Solesource.

I realise that some of you may find this reaction OTT but what about the reaction of the colleague who was present at that meeting - were they OTT as well? How do you define the right reaction? When does it become acceptable to group an entire population together from many different cultural and national backgrounds and make such a negative comment?

"Good on ya then, with ya pc gone crazy"

Thank you - an excellent example of why it's virtually impossible to have a reasoned discussion on MN nowadays.

He didn't say the parents were shit in any way he said kids have to work in shop. He might be saying the kids are lazy buggers for hanging around instead of going home to help their parents. Someone might have said why do all the ethnic minority kids hang around after lessons they are up to something dodgy and he might be sticking up for the and saying they only hang around so they don't have to work in shop, they are harmless.

Another over emotional rant. Lol