To think bedtime routines for babies and younger toddlers are not sacrosanct and can be messed around with good outcomes?

[lucasma]

Ds 13 months has always been a bad sleeper and has always had a good bedtime routine.

He settles himself well for naps and bedtime. The problem is night wakings. (I suspect fear of the dark and separation anxiety).

We tried night weaning when he was 11 months and we lasted just over 2 weeks with him wide awake and upset for over 2 hours each night. Dh was helping but stopped and I couldnt sustain it and started feeding again in desperation and now its back to 3-7 night wakings each night, some short with a bit of patting to resettle. Others longer (crying, shouting, wide awake, breastfeeding, patting etc) and can take up to 2 hours. I am so tired.

Dh will be able to help again soon but has a problem back and can't do too much lifting.

I am thinking we change direction with night weaning and when ds wakes up wide awake and won't settle easily (around midnight usually) dh can lift him out put him in a confined, dim lighted playpen area and feed him toast and water. Then he can read him some stories and with luck ds will go back to sleep? He settles well at bedtime with some stories so why wouldn't he in the middle of the night?

(I am thinking if we do this ds will sleep through until the morning as when we were doing the night weaning before he would sleep through once he went back to sleep after the first waking).

Aibu to take ds out of his cot at night, to allow dh to read him stories and give him food and water and to not follow all the bedtime rules?

I'd drop the morning nap. Definitely no toast, as you're just building up another problem for the future when you want to stop feeding him at night. I'd probably take him into my bed until he gets used to sleeping through, and then try and get him to sleep in his cot when you have that cracked.

Try and tackle one thing at a time, not everything at once.

Cosleep. When he wakes up, gather him in for a cuddle.

iggly yes he does have some problems with wind.

He doesn't eat much dairy (that is why I was going to continue bf) as family history of intolerance. He has milk with his cereal and that's it. No yogurt. Rarely cheese, sometimes parmasean as a flavour.

He doesn't eat any soy or many green veg. He likes fruit more and root vegetables. He does eat our food though that is flavoured with chilli, garlic and onion. Maybe that is a problem. I will try googling for some more information about this, thank you.

I would try crying it out for three nights. Sounds like nothing else is working. But if the sleeping arrangements are about to change there might be no point. He may well settle easily if he is right next to you and you can just shush him. I also think he should have one nap of no more than two hours in the middle of the day.

Ok I won't do the toast thing.

Can't co sleep as he is too active. I really have no idea how others do it with older babies. Whenever I have tried he wakes up and rolls, crawls, stands and walks around. We have never even been able to bring him into bed since he was around 4 months as it is too dangerous. He needs a cot to stay safe.

Cut the naps. Neither of mine had a morning nap at that age. Afternoon nap 12.30 -3.00. Then go swimming, park or play out, as much fresh aIr as possible.

I would not feed anything but water at night, and agree with above that controlled crying does work.

Good luck its a form of torture.

All three of mine had dairy intollerance, the second two severely, even when I had any milk they would get upset tummies. Ds also had an inguinal hernia and the wind made it worse, and the mucus he produced meant the op was delayed numerous times. With him therefore I was the most observant. He had no dairy or soya, even to the extent of finding bread with no dairy or soya. He grew out of it the fastest and slept the best. He does sometimes wake, either because he needs a wee, has wet the bed, or he is thirsty, we just give him water.

If you start to feed him in the night then his stomach will start to make more acid in anticipation and that will wake him up. He might need a drink of water though as it is hot at night, finally!

He doesn't let me cuddle him to sleep. Only cuddles when being fed.

I think night feeding and playing are a dreadful idea (sorry). If there was ever a way to encourage a young child to wake up, that would be it! Just stick with quick, low key soothing (no eye contact andout of the room quickly) and you'll get there eventually. Good luck.

Meant to add he does let dh cuddle him to sleep, which is what we did a few weeks back when trying to night wean but we needed to try something different as dh has a problem with his back and needs to avoid too much lifting/carrying.

I'm inclined to think he has too much sleep in the day, too.

It's around this age that they start to move from 2 naps to 1. Try adding up all the sleep he's getting over 24 hours - you may be surprised.

When mine were born, I got them a cuddly toy that played music. I would start it playing before every sleep. When they got older, they would start it themselves. I think it really helped to settle them. DS is a big boy of 12 and wouldn't be seen dead with his now, but DD is still small enough for hers.

Ok iabu.

We will move flats, start new job and survive on little sleep without getting fired. I will make dh do as much resettling as possible and try to not feed as much as possible (bearing in mind we can't allow too much crying as the neighbours will complain!)

I will ask childcarer to try cutting his naps more. He does wake early also, 5.30 so I hesitate to cut the morning nap completely!

I will look at diet too.

Hopefully we can save more money with me working so we can move into proper flat in 6 months and then do cc.

Will be hell and hopefully we manage it.

I do keep sleep log. Has been averaging 8-10 at night (that is actual sleeping not wakings) and 1.5 -2.5 in the day.

I found offereing only water to DD when she woke in the night a great tool to wean her off milk at night. Would that be something you may consider? I had a little bottle of water and if she wouldnt re settle with just a dummy in then I would try the water. More often than not, it worked.

As you are moving into a bedsit, would you maybe find it easier to keep him up with you in the evenings and you all go to sleep together at say 10pm? Just thinking if you are all living and sleeping in the same room he may be disturbed during the evening. Big milk feed and bed at 10pm then he may well sleep through til 6am?

You poor thing - sleep deprivation is a terrible thing! CC did work really well for my DS1, but DS3 was a nightmare - very like yours, going to bed fine but waking in the night for a couple of hours at a time and just wanting to play... Aaaaaarrrgghh! I went slightly mad during that time. CC did NOT work with him no matter how long I persevered. I think what would have worked was my sleeping in his room, but it was tiny and there was no floor space for me! Instead he came into our bed as we were too exhausted to argue.

He was 3 when he finally slept through, and it was when I put him into a room with his older brother DS2 (who always slept like a log). I think he just wanted another person with him. He is 13 now and still needs less sleep than anyone else in the house - some are just born like that, but I do sympathise, it was an awful time.

Try sleeping on his floor or he could sleep on yours? It may work, but they are all different and you just have to find what works for you (and him) and if that means giving him toast when he wakes then so be it. I really think it is worth trying anything to get your sanity back. Good luck!

This might sound completely mental, but have you tried a nightlight?

My DD was awake like yours at nights until around 14 months. Once she stopped feeding at nights, she used to wake herself up until I bought three little lights and scattered them around her room. It means that there are no 'dark' corners. She can see everywhere.

I switch them on after she's gone to sleep the first time and leave her door open for her at that time. I close her door when I go to bed and leave the lights to do their thing. Worked a treat in about a week.

If her has any especial favourites, get him a light with one of them on. DD has a Lightening McQueen clock!

My DD did this every now and again and sometimes still does. I wouldn't put any lights on, put her lullaby CD on and if necessary give her some warm milk (in her cot) but I wouldn't let her get up or get into any interaction with her.

Put some toys in his cot and maybe a dim light on a timer he can turning/you can turn on for him. He can have a little play and fall back to sleep. Don't Tay in the room with him either, leave him too it. Too much interaction from you/DH and he'll think it's proper play time.

If my DS wakes in the night we pop his dummy backin if he's lost it and put his night time sound on and leave him. Unless there is actually something ring with him this will settle him pretty fast. (he is night weaned though, did it himself)

I'd cut out the milk in his cereal - give him an oat based milk instead.

Check his diet and give him a sip of peppermint tea before bath time. Plus a teaspoon in a beaker of water for night wakings.

DS was terrible at this age for sleep. It was hell. I really feel for you. We noticed his diet had a huge impact on his nights so woul have to be careful. It's worth giving a boring diet for a week and keep up the naps. I think cutting them would backfire (I've been there). Sleep begets sleep plus gives you a break in the day too. Go for early bedtime, pitch black room and stay with him if you need to. Try sleeping in his room for a bit - sometimes I could use my voice to resettle DS (I'd lie there and tell him to go back to sleep - so he knew I was there. He might kick off but unless he was distressed, I'd not pick him up).

Good luck OP - it will get better but will take a week or so of any change to work.

Poor you.

I'd drop the morning nap too. It may stop the 5.30 waking as well. Dd started early morning waking when she was ready to drop her morning nap.

Good luck.

I would try Waking To Sleep first - will link in a moment.

Basically, you aim to re-boot the sleep patterns by rousing the DC - not to wakefulness but enough for them to murmur/roll over.

This worked for DS2, when I did it when he was around 4

When he was the age your son is, I did CC, which worked quickly and until he was 4, when his sleep went a bit haywire again. I well remember the increasingly long and elaborate settling I had to do with him. Something snapped when I found myself sitting on the floor by his door for an hour in the freezing cold, and then he woke 6again^ because the floorboard creaked.

WAKE TO SLEEP

I had a similar problem with DS after a great start. His blood sugar just wasn't holding out long enough. GP confirmed this. I got around the problem by giving porridge at bedtime. He eventually stopped needing it.

Thanks for replies.

Yes he has a night light. That is how we know he dislikes the dark. Just a small one but it made a big difference to his sleep when we introduced it a couple of months ago. His sleep improved a lot. Before everyone kept saying to keep the room pitch black so we had but this didn't work for him.

This thread has made me feel a bit optimistic. We are planning to move his bedtime slightly later when we move to the bedsit and then we will also go to bed to read and use earphones to watch DVDs etc, hopefully this won't disturb him. He is actually a deep sleeper when he does sleep, it takes quite a bit of effort to wake him during his daytime nap.

Maybe being in the same room will settle him more as well.