to wonder why death can bring out the worst in some people?

[GnocchiNineDoors]

Or is it grief clouding their usual self?

BIL has very recently lost his mother. She has been ill for some time and has sadly passed away. He is one of four siblings (has one brother, two sisters) and his sisters have spoken to and planned their mother's funeral without informing him that the discussions / arrangements were being sorted.

They have contacted him and SIL (My DH's sister and her DH) and told him that they have made all of the arrangements and they need him to give them two thousand pounds towards the funeral.

BILs mother, brother and both of his sisters are / were unemployed and their has been a government grant towards the funeral of £1400, however they have been told by the Undertaker that the basic minimum cost for a funeral (cremation) is £4000 and the 2k short they have asked BIL for is the deposit needed.

BIL is employed, though is supporting a wife and four children so money is, of course, not readily avaliable. The Undertaker has informed them that they can have an 'account' of sorts which they can pay off the total sum within one year.

BILs siblings have demanded that he gives them 2k within a week as this is apparently a deposit which is required to book and go ahead with the funeral and they are apparently furious with him that he wasn;t involved with any of the planning which he was totally unaware was happening.

SIL and the sisters have had cross words and she and I were discussing tonight how they have suddenly become so agressive and demanding and while I have total sympathy at the loss of their mother, I think this negativity and anger is overshaddowing her death and tainting this already sad time.

The siblings have said that as BIL is the only one working, he should meet the costs of their mother's funeral himself and as they are are on benefits, their contribution is the governemtn grant given.

They haven't even offered to pay £5....£1....50p a week towards it.

I am so on BIL and SILs behalf and they are stuck not knowing what to do: risk resentment and family rifts or take on debts to cover the costs?

carer so long as arrangements are in place, funds are sorted, and the parents have made plans, then it isnt too much of a problem that your BIL would rather not know. It is highly unlikely that you will lose both the IL's at the same time, so when one dies, the remaining one will be the person who is in charge of that first funeral anyway.

carernotasaint - same thing happened to my sister and I when our Mum died. Our brother took no part in any any arrangements even though he had been invited to. Sadly, his squeamishness about illness and death also extended to not visiting her in a nursing home in the years before her death - he couldn't bear it. And he had always been her "favourite" - whatever he did she made an excuse for him.

Also Catholic family but not Italian.

As your DH says - no participation in arrangements means no criticism allowed.

its more cos DB is like it with other things too.his ex once confiscated his daughters mobile phone as a punishment for TWO YEARS so my DN couldnt communicate with extended family and nothing was done about that either.

How awful for your BIL. Not only has he got to deal with the death of his mum but hes aldo got to deal with his siblings being unreasonable. You cant plan something without discussing it & then just expect them to have the money to pay for it.

thanks storytopper. thats incredibly sad that he never went to visit her while she was in the home. thats awful.

I have to say, there is one aspect of being an only child (as I am/was), when your parents die, there is no other family to argue with over decisions.

At the time of my Mums death, I did feel a bit at sea, and wished I had a sibling there to reassure me that the decisions I made were the right ones, but to be honest, after reading so many of the threads on MN, and the horror stories of how awful it can be when the siblings fall out at the time over arrangements and costs, I wonder if being an only child can have benefits in some ways.

Sorry to here that youve lost your mum Squeakytoy. x

That's an incredible amount of money for a cremation

The Co-op charged us just under £2k for my DXH back in January. That was for a basic funeral with Crem Service. We had to provide a deposit before anything could be finalised.

Because he was unemployed and had no assets the "Social" gave us just over £1,000 grant and we were told that that was the maximum they could give.

His father and brother refused to help with any arrangements or payment saying that as they were umemployed, their share was the "Social" grant given so I totally understand where you are coming from and it's really hard to stand up to people when you are grieving, you just want to get through it.

I was going to have to take out a loan to pay for his funeral but in the end a PPI payment came through (thank God).

My suggestion would be to ask for an itemised estimate and see if grief has clouded their judgement with expensive services etc. The bill should also be split 4 ways after the grant has been applied

DH brother still owes us money for MILs funeral yet he organised it and made sure it was lavish and we paid for it all , some folk are just down right stingy imo

My maternal grandmother held her side of the family together, and when she passed away there was a major divide between the siblings.

Things came to a head when two of the daughters (my aunts) demanded certain things belonging to my grandmother....

Her false teeth and wedding ring

Forgot to put YANBU

I've organised two funerals, admittedly some time ago now, but I think you need investigate the £4000 cost further. Even allowing for the time gap, that sounds excessive to me.

And, yes, sadly it does seem to bring out the worst in people. I had a close relative have a major pop at me for arranging the funeral in the way that my Dad had specifically requested. And for putting the plastic urn that had contained his ashes in the bin after I had scattered the ashes in the place Dad had requested. He only knew that because he had been rumaging through the bin . People can be very strange.

I'm in agreement that £4000 is a lot for a basic cremation, I would certainly be asking for an itemised breakdown of the funeral costs.

Having recently (kinda late last year) dealt with the sudden death of my partners mother and subsequent family involvement with the funeral and costs I'm 100% in agreement that grief brings out the worst in people!!! My partners brother refused to pay towards the funeral costs, not a single penny or even a bunch of flowers, he dictated everything he wanted and then informed us he would not be going the funeral if his mothers husband was there as he didn't like him I could have punched him at this point particularly as he declared his mother was dead what did she care in front of my dd, ds, partner and his sister . My partner and I aren't rich he works full time and I'm a full time Uni student, i am to this day still paying off part if the funeral costs on my credit card but thankfully his sister helped towards some of the payment.

Big important life events stress people out, and can bring out their true colours. Some people are reasonable and civilised at heart and carry that core of decency into hard times - others behave like dicks, because that is what they really are when the chips are down - it just takes a stressful situation for them to really come out and fully exhibit their dickishness.

The sisters are behaving kind of like Bridezillas in a way - they want things to be just the way they think they should be for such an important occasion, without a thought for cost or other people's feelings.

I have been unfortunate enough to see this sort of thing twice in my own family.

Firstly when my maternal grandfather died - my mum's youngest sister went into his house, and stole took all his valuables and sold them to fund the most absurdly lavish and completely over the top funeral and probably trousered a good bit of money too. Then when my mum and older sister challenged her on what she'd done she threw a strop and refused to come to the funeral it took them all years to start talking to each other again, and things have never really been the same.

Then when my paternal grandmother died, fights broke out between her nieces and DILs over her jewellery (she'd willed it all to me as her only granddaughter ) and most of the family then looked to me (aged 15!) to pay the full cost of her funeral because she'd left me all her (admittedly valuable) jewellery so I could clearly afford it the best! So that was another huge family fall out.

£4000 also sounds steep to me (would expect more like £2500-£3500 for a decent send off) but if it has all been arranged I'm not sure there is much to do about it. I don't think your BIL should stump up though - or at least not for more than his fair share of the bill.

It was incredibly rude of his sisters to not involve him with any of the planning - but to be quick enough to reel him in when they need a line of credit for their plans. on his behalf poor chap.

Also - who the heck has 2k just lying around doing nothing? His siblings are a bit crazy to even ask. I think I would prefer a family rift (sad as that is) to taking on a not insignificant debt if the family in question are such utterly unreasonable piss-taking tight-arses.

I agree with Tigerbomb and StrawberryTot, he should ask for an itemisation of costs. If they have signed a contract that includes unnecessary things then it's up to them to pay for it, not him, or recognise that they have gone overboard and try and scale it back. ideally they should all chip in equally and have the funeral they can afford.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8394281.stm

Undertakers are owed money hand over fist. It is unsurprising they want money up front. They are a business also.

Undertaker Joel Kerr, whose funeral service in Hartlepool is owed £30,000 in unpaid fees, said his work "is getting more and more like a money lending service".
The funeral director now asks families for a cash deposit of several hundreds of pounds.
He said: "We don't want to do it because we provide a service for the families, and the families are struggling to pay, but unfortunately we're a business at the end of the day and we've got to get the money in."

What about the bereavement payment? When my DH died in Jan 2011 we got a £2000 payment that I believe is mandatory. Both DH and I were in well paid employment ( both higher rate tax payers) and I still got this.

I'm fucked off too... but as I'm in danger of launching into a 'misguided views it seems many people on long term benefits have of the rest of the world' rant, I'm going to shut up.

He just has to tell them that they either share the cost or rearrange within the allowance they have, plus whatever he can afford to offer towards the cost. It's completely unfair of them to burden him with debt 'just because he's working'.

The costs he has been quoted are not unreasonable for around here but I do live in London.

In my borough, the price of a standard grave plus burial fee is £2441. No cars, coffins, chapel costs or anything else are included in that!

As these are costs paid to someone other than the funeral director, they have to be paid upfront before a funeral date will be arranged.

You may be able to claim Bereavement Payment if your husband, wife or civil partner had paid their National Insurance contributions (NICs) or their death was caused by their job and either:
you were under State Pension age when they died
your husband, wife or civil partner was not entitled to Category A state Retirement Benefit when they died

My husband died 2 years ago and the undertaker + crematorium cost was £2000. He and I had discussed it before he died and neither of us wanted lots spent on the funeral so he had the cheapest coffin (undertaker wouldn't use bin bag and was not allowed to use cardboard). We provided our own pallbearers so just had the hearse and the rest of us found our own way to the crematorium. It looks as the sisters' undertakers persuaded them to have more expensive items than they really needed. I used the Co-operative
Funeral Service and could not fault them in any way. I went to visit my DH in their chapel every day until his funeral and they were so understanding and kind.

My Gramps died on Fathers Day this year, and his funeral was June 29th. His funeral cost £3500, but included the hearse, an oak coffin and food and drink for the wake after (held at his home).

There are no siblings for my Mum, so she has had to help Nan on her own but at least there was no bickering. When my Dad's Dad died the bickering was horrendous.

Did they get the 1400 grant because they are unemployed? If so then I would suggest that he puts 1000 into the pot only. 4k divided into 4 parts is 1k per person. BIL gives 1k while the others have to find 533 each instead of 1k (1600 divided into three parts)

Look at cutting costs if you can but which ever way, he should only pay 1/4 of the whole sum - while the 1400 is taken off the 3/4 and they have to find the remainder.

If the grant is a standard grant for all, then the 1400 should come off the total sum, with the remainder split four ways.

I don´t think that 4000GBP is that bad tbh.

But, that´s not the point.

He should be paying a quarter imo.