to say something to cleaner leaving early and what do I say?

[Trioofprinces]

New cleaner started about a month ago. We agreed she would do 3 hrs. She said that after getting used to it she thought it would take 2-2.5hrs, but we agreed to stick to 3hrs for the time being.

A couple of weeks ago she left after 2hrs 45mins so the following week I said something along the lines of "you seemed to be doing ok for time last week so if you have time could you please do x this week".

This week was the first time I left and let her lock up. I know she got here at 9.30 and the alarm shows her leaving at 11.50, so she stayed for 2hrs 20mins only. She took the money for the full 3hrs. (It would have been easy to take for 2.5hrs as she charges £8ph and I left £24, so she could have taken £20 and left a note).

Now, obviously if I didn't have the alarm I wouldn't have known when she left, and I doubt she knows that I can see the entry and exit time of her keyfob.

She came highly recommended so I don't want to naff her off but I also want to make the point that I am happy to pay for what she does, whether that be 2.5hrs or 3hrs but that I expect her to work the time I have paid.

We are also going on holiday next week and she is due to do 6hrs while we're away, now clearly if she thinks my house can be done in less than 2.5hrs, there is no way she is going to work all 6hrs we're away.

So, what do I say to make her realise I can see how long she's here without sounding like I'm monitoring her, and what do I do about the holiday time?

WWYD?

Thanks

I do wonder how many of you would consider £8 an hour a good wage when it's your only source of income or the only job on offer to you. Many cleaners are single parents or not trained to do anything else and the problem with cleaning is that it's so physically demanding that it's almost impossible to cope with a full time week.There are certainly easier ways to earn a living...

I have a similar dilemma. I have 2 cleaners come for 2 hours so 4 hours. I know they sometimes leave 15 mins early as they also clean for my neighbour and she has told me. That would be fine if it was 15 mins, but because there's 2 of them it means 1/2 an hour I've paid for and not got.

I know that on at least one occasion, they left half an hour early

The reason I haven't said anything up until now is that they are the first reliable cleaners I have had in 7 years of employing cleaners, they tidy which is worth it's weight in gold, and they are very very nice ladies and I trust them, whereas I have had some horrors.

The house is generally cleaned well and they do loads of ironing, so I'm kind of loathe to rock the boat.

I pay £9 through an agency so think £8 is fine if you're employing her directly.

This is why I have given up on cleaners for the time being. We used an agency for a while - had some good and some indifferent cleaners, then one who stole my Tesco vouchers, I then changed to a lady recommended by a friend she was reasonably expensive but I wasn't convinced she was doing the full three hours as didn't seem to do the amount of stuff I thought she would be able to in that time, and was validated by SIL who said she saw her leaving after 2.5 hrs. So now I do it myself and can do roughly the same job in about 2 hours for free.

I can understand it tbh, its not a great job and you don't get much in the way of feedback from your customers, but I would pay over the going rate for someone reliable where you could tell they had been there for the full time.

And I don't think it's a good wage which is why I actually normally pay more than the agency rate and give them a good Xmas bonus. Also when I was made redundant I cut down on loads of outgoings apart from the cleaners as I am aware that I am a huge part of their weekly income. I also pay them if I'm on holiday and don't need them.

turbo1 said, "It is absolutely the law she has public liability insurance."

For sole traders, it is not against the law not to have public liability insurance, although if she has staff, she does have a legal obligation to have employers' liability insurance.

Bartlet - that's what I thought too.

turbo1. Sounds like a bad day, I think you need a as well as your coffee.

One of the reasons why I have almost always (see earlier post) got on with my cleaners is that I always say to them when I take them on that whilst I am very flexible and understanding etc etc I don't want them working any less than their appointed hours. I say it loud and clear and it's pretty much the only 'rule' I have. I am happy for them to have ciggie and coffee breaks and it's nice to have a bit of a chit chat but if I pay them for three hours I want them to work for three hours.

pickledpenny I don't think anyone has suggested cleaners are overpaid or have an easy job. It's quite that the minimum wage is only just a few pence over £6.

Maybe there isn't enough work for the whole time, or she cleans quicker than someone else might.

Is she doing a good job.
Can you increase the tasks she does.
Ask her if she thinks the time allocation is too much

Chances are she doesn't want to sit In A strangers house with nothing to do

im curious as to why anybody would pay a cleaner in a home by the hour.my house takes me just over 4 hours my cleaner does it in half the time and shes better than me.
i dont give a shiney shit how long it takes her as long as everything gets done,i pay her by the job rather than hour works out that she gets £35 per clean or £60 if ive had a party or anything like that.shes more than happy with that sometimes it works in my favor but mostly its in hers

I think putting off talking to cleaners is a mistake as you become more unhappy and paranoid and stressed about something that is supposed to make your life easier. Please talk to her and make it clear what the job is and what you would like her to do. If you want three hours then tell her you want the 2.5 hour clean and then the additional jobs.. please clean the skirting / paint / use your initiative / fold the clothes / whatever. Tell her what you want doing while you are away as she'll have extra time as you are not there to make a mess..So much less stressful to get it out in the open and sorted - I know, I've been stressed about cleaners so many times over the years - craziness! If you like her, feel she does a good job and you are paying accordingly & in a way that suits you both then hopefully once you've talked to her properly you can relax and enjoy having a lovely clean home!

That's the thing though with cleaning some weeks you are quicker than others.
I think if you have set her the tasks to do and she does them all and does a good job then I think you should pay her 3 hours. Good cleaners are hard to come by. I used to clean private homes when I was at uni and I earned £8 an hour back then. This will have been about 5/6 year s ago. It should have rose by now and I am not In London.
She's not earning a fortune doing 3 hours and if you cut it down anymore it probably wont be worth her while. She will have to pay petrol to come to you too. She might just end up leaving.

I don't think she's dishonest. The norm with cleaning is to have a rough idea of hours then set tasks and if gyou get them done quicker then that's a bonus. As I said some weeks you are slower.

I do n t think the pay is great but if she's happy with it then it's fine. Companies always pay their cleaners poor wages, private clients pay a lot more.

I'd probably just add an extra task or two to her rota if it's really bothering you. I would phrase it that because she's probably got more in to a routine now could she fit in a few extra bits in the 3 hours.

But OP has agreed to pay by the hour.

Isn´t up to her if she wants to pay the same money or not for less hours?

Maybe if the cleaner had told her, she might have decided to pay the same amount no matter how long it takes .

As some have said-x pounds per week for a clean house.

@bartlet

Are you sure on this one? I know a lot of sole trader window cleaners and they said they had to get PLI.

Would be interested to hear your response as I have just branched out into a window round and was dreading phoning the insurance company as I thought they would get their knickers in a twist over me using ladders. The window round will just be me working on it for now-when I build it up I will employ a lovely Polish chap who is already on the commercial side.

Yes, completely. Public liability insurance just covers loss or injury suffered by a customer or a member of the public as a result of the trader's/business' business activities and covers the compensation payments and any legal expenses. I think it would be daft not to get it (as if anything happens, you need to pay for it yourself and so, I imagine, could easily bankrupt people), but it is certainly not a legal requirement.

I think taking money for three hours when she was there for two hours and twenty minutes was dishonest. For that reason alone she would have to go.

OK - I used to be a cleaner (up until 8 months ago - change in circumstances) - self employed. Now "just" a dinner lady..... I had liability insurance for my own piece of mind, I was not required to have it, nor was I ever asked if I did have it - it cost £72 per year and covered all my separate clients.

I worked 3 hours a week x 6 separate clients, I charged £10 per hour. As part of my contract with the client, I required ALL duties that I was expected to complete to be listed. The first 2 weeks were probationary - both for me and for them - during those 2 weeks it was determined if the jobs could be done to the client's satisfaction in the time-frame or if jobs had to be added or removed.

I only had one lady that I could not work for - she required too much work for the time-frame, if I was to keep up my high standards, I would not be able to complete, so I declined to continue after the probationary period. No one asked me not to continue. I worked for one family for 8 years, etc etc..

The list is the vital part - I am paid for 3 hours work, but if it is completed in less time to the same standard, then I am free to go - I have agreed this in advance with each client. Sometimes I will stay up to 10 min longer to complete something (after a particularly icky playdate/party etc), but generally will finish round 10 min less than the 3 hours

Anyhow -OP - the cleaner already intimated that she would need 2.5 hours to do the job - that is probably the 2.5 hours that she actually has available between the school /nursery run in the morning and lunchtime job/nursery pickup at lunchtime.. she was probably desperate for the job so agreed initially to your 3 hour thing, thinking I'll get the job done quicker and can still get wherever on time.. If the work you require to be done is done , and done to a high enough standard, then you have a good cleaner - don't lose her!

you have a dishonest cleaner!

Yanbu - I couldnt afford a cleaner but if i could i would probably want them to work whilst i was at home or popping in and out. Would it be possible to do this? That way she has no temptation to work less than youve paid for...