To take my baby on holiday with chickenpox

[MamaMia100]

Before you shoot me down, read on:
It started on monday 16th when I found a big well developed (so must have been there a day or 2 already) blister under his testicles. A day or 2 later, more spots and a temperature (quite mild, he hasn't really been that unwell). Old advice is wait until all spots crusted over (which would prob be a good week away from
now as new spots still appearing) but gp said (and wrote me a note saying) that new guidelines are that they are only infectious for a max of 6 days from first spot (which must have appeared on Sunday at latest as it was already a big fat blister by the time I found it on Monday, and the other spots have taken a few days to reach that stage). Supposed to be going to rural France to stay in a v isolated house which we are unlikely to leave v often (as there's a pool ad massive gardens there) by train tomorrow morning. I am worried about
A) infecting others on train as, despite gp advice, spots are far from crusted over,
B) him getting more ill while away from home (been told they can get a bad cough a week after pox gone - any experience of this???). He has breathing issues which are due tone investigated when we get back from hold (noisy breathing/gasping - suspected floppy larynx or similar. Endoscopy had to be postponed when he developed the pox).
Any opinions? Do I go with gp's advice, or my conscience (and miss out on my hols when he may not even be infectious - don't think travel insurance will work as we bought it after pox
seen by gp). And there's the worry of a bad cough making his breathing worse. We are going with a friend who is a trainee gp and there is a hospital nearby but still a bit worried...

Any thoughts/ opinions greatly appreciated as I've lost the plot somewhat! Sorry for mammoth post! TIA

And the NHS advice says not to.

The advice you linked to for nurseries and schools is different though as they know if they have people in at risk groups there. Out and about you dont have that knowledge.

Surely nobody would advice taking a child who still has spots appearing on public transport?

Yes Bartlett, anyone that has lost a loved one to Chickenpox, or a pregnancy to Chickenpox DOES know better than you.

The OP doesn't know who may be on that train.

From your link:

VULNERABLE CHILDREN

Some medical conditions make children vulnerable to infections that would rarely be serious in most
children, these include those being treated for leukaemia or other cancers, on high doses of steroids and
with conditions that seriously reduce immunity. Schools and nurseries and childminders will normally have
been made aware of such children. These children are particularly vulnerable to chickenpox or measles
and, if exposed to either of these, the parent/carer should be informed promptly and further medical
advice sought. It may be advisable for these children to have additional immunisations, for example
pneumococcal and influenza.

FEMALE STAFF# ? PREGNANCY
If a pregnant woman develops a rash or is in direct contact with someone with a potentially infectious rash,
this should be investigated by a doctor. The greatest risk to pregnant women from such infections comes
from their own child/children, rather than the workplace.
? Chickenpox can affect the pregnancy if a woman has not already had the infection. Report exposure to
midwife and GP at any stage of exposure. The GP and antenatal carer will arrange a blood test to check
for immunity. Shingles is caused by the same virus as chickenpox, so anyone who has not had chickenpox
is potentially vulnerable to the infection if they have close contact with a case of shingles.

OP, Don't go on holiday via the train, don't put vulnerable people at risk! If your holiday is that important, then change your mode of trasport to Car/Tunnel

the last time I looked for the purposes of one of these discussions, over a three year period the number of people who died from chicken pox in the UK was five. That is not just incredibly rare - it is so tiny as to be a neglidgeable risk.

So the only risk is death is it? Wannabe? Strange comment perhaps you need to look more into how bad it can be for those who are vulnerable before trying to suggest there aren't dangers

Medical knowledge and science seem to have differing views, depending on the source Bartlett.

Look I don't want to argue with you. I simply want it known that for those of us who have been badly affected by chicken pox, the risk is too great.
And taking a risk with other people's health smacks of selfishness.
Really it's just a few days. Not too much to ask is it?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Chickenpox/Pages/Complications.aspx

Wannabe, 5-14% of adults who get chicken pox suffer complication. It's risky for pregnant women, it's risky for those who are immuno suppressed (and therefore already struggling with illness) is it really a risk worth taking?

Given that a child I know who has terminal cancer has contracted chicken pox from another child on a train recently, and this has delayed her treatment for some weeks, I am somewhat against this idea

Please don't assume that there are no children with compromised immunity in your vicinity.

I would go. And it baffles me why any woman ttc or pregnant wouldn't get vaccinated, since it's sure to come your way at some point.

Oh, and that was on Eurotunnel to Disneyland.

Chandellina - you do realise that immuno compromised people can't have vaccines? So even if pregnant people did that wouldn't make it safe to go out

There is not a currently widely available chicken pox vaccination at the moment in the UK, Chandellina.

WHen I interviewed Professor Andrew Pollard at the University of Oxford for a feature on vaccines a couple of years ago, he told me: "We see children with severe complications [from chicken pox] every year. Some of those can lead to damage to joints and bones, severe skin infections or even septicaemia.?

ds caught CP from a 'friend' who brought her poxy ds over to play. He was all wrapped up so I didn't see it until the boys had hugged and played for a few minutes.
ds caught it, and due to the timing, it was when his adult teeth were forming. They are all coming through without enamel.

her response at the time? 'I thought you'd be pleased to catch it young'.

How bloody dare she. Ds willmeed extensive dental treatment because SHE decided it was ok.

Deaths are rare, yes, but these kinds of complications are not.

The effects of chicken pox on the immuno-suppressed are horrible. The potential complications for pregnancy are horrible too but incredibly rare and contrary to popular belief there is no evidence that chicken pox increases the risk of miscarriage. If the HPA advice and the GP advice tallies then I would follow that. Regrettfully chicken pox is endemic in our society in any case and will be until we vaccinate.

Wannabe - the number of deaths may be small but each of those deaths was preventable by the use of a vaccine that most of the developed world embraces. It's a small risk but it could be smaller.

wannabe I am sure the families of those 5 people who died don't feel it was negligible.

DH has an auto-immune condition, caught a short-haul flight thinking it would be okay. He was exposed to chicken pox from someone - we believe on the flight, because of timings etc. He was off work and in a wheelchair for 3 months.

The difficulties it put us through were immense. Our house is not wheelchair adapted. The anxiety it put us through was immense.

So on those grounds, I would also beg you not to use public transport, but more helpfully, could you not use Eurotunnel? People have to stay in their cars on the train - there is very little risk of your DCs harming anyone else that way, then drive to your rural destination. Maybe that might work?

Firstly, sorry your DS has been ill.

Secondly, I would really urge you to delay your holiday or not use public transport. My DS is immuno-suppressed (cancer). Exposure to measles or chickenpox has serious implications for him.

There is a lot of conflicting advice and opinions about. Good luck.

I think the point Bartlet was making is that the HPA is talking about 2 different ways of transmitting the disease. One is respiratory, and is the most common and that method of transmission is passed after 48 hours.

The other is by contact, you have to touch the liquid in the blister, which is very infectious. Obviously you can only touch the liquid if you are touching the child. Children in nursery and coming round ofr playdates etc are obvioulsy more likely to touch each other, so both methods of transmission have to apply. People on the train though will not be touching the child, so can only be exposed by respiatory tranmission, which is not relevant after 48 hours.

If gp and HPA agree, and if what Bartlett says is correct, then your child is NOT a risk to others on the train.

I would not travel with an child who can infect others, but in this case I think the science says they are not infectious in this context.

Thank you all so much for all the feedback - amazing response! I am very grateful. Checked advice with a third gp who was v sceptical at first but looked it up and said it does seem to be the current advice that it's a max of 6 days.

I do feel very uneasy about putting others at risk though, especially when he has spots that are only just coming out now. And as someone else said, we dont know for sure that it was before monday that it started. We are looking into the eurotunnel option now as that avoids the exposure issue, as many of you have suggested (hadn't considered it earlier as he is a terrible car traveller, but now thinking about driving through the night.). Also means we can go in a day or two when we will know more about how he's doing (one spot looking a bit infected).

Such a difficult one! So hard when the advice is so variable - it does mean people can cherry pick whatever advice suits them. I also have no time for people who cover their poxy kids up and do whatever suits them with no regard for others. Having experienced the stress of serious health issues with your kids first hand I really want to avoid causing anyone in that position any worry, let alone cause actual harm.

On a purely selfish level, I would be considering the impact that having a sick child on holiday would have on MY holiday. I remember my sister having chicken pox when we were on holiday one year and she was so miserable it was unbearable. It was hot, which made her itch more and she just wanted to stay in bed all week. My mother stayed in a flat with her while my dad took the rest of us out but it was one VERY miserable holiday for everyone.

As for travelling on public transport with a possibly infectious child, it's not something I would do. Have you checked with the French policy, is there any possibility that you would be refused entry?

On a different note, I refused to allow my DH into the hospital when I was in labour with DS2 after my DS1 went down with chickenpox and DH hadn't had it - he sat outside until bloodtest results came through confirming that he had natural immunity!

What do you do in the situation where your child has been in close vicinity with lots of CP but has yet to come out in spots? They could be contagious... or not. Surely it's the risk every pregnant woman takes, or immunosuppressed person takes, whenevr they go on public transport etc?

I would not go because of the risk to others.

I'm pregnant and my mother cant demember if i have had chicken pox I met my DP's friend in town the other day with her toddler son, i stopped and said him and chatted to them for a while, only when I came home and looked at facebook did I see she had posted that her DS had chicken pox (spots not on his face so I didn't realise) I felt so angry that she would risk other people's health just for the sake of her popping to the shops!

What do you do in the situation where your child has been in close vicinity with lots of CP but has yet to come out in spots? They could be contagious... or not. Surely it's the risk every pregnant woman takes, or immunosuppressed person takes, whenevr they go on public transport etc?

If my child had not had chicken pox and had been around kids with chicken pox I would keep them at home untill they either developed chicken pox or it was after the time that they might develop chicken pox.

It's not just public transport, its cinemas, restaurants, shops, soft play areas, any public spcae. Should pregnant women and people with immune issues stay at home the entire time so a parent with a child with chicken pox can go to the shops/go on a bus? surely it's not to much to ask in society that if you have chicken pox or there is a high chance you might have chicken pox you stay at home.

Can't believe it! DD - who has had the pox vaccine - has a temp of 39 degrees!!!! Is it even possible that she has caught it? Can't believe what bad luck we're having! And if it is the pox, then we've passed it onto everyone at nursery too I thought we were safe with her having been vaccinated!

nemonemo: When you know your child has been in close vicinity with lots of CP, you keep them at home until the incubation period is passed, especially towards the end of the incubation period. If you need playdates, then you limit them to people you know are already immune.

Because the needs of pregnant and immunosuppressed people to travel without risk takes precedence over my need to take out my infectious child.

MamaMia--yes, it's definitely possible to develop CP after the vaccine, especially after several days exposure to an infectious sibling. But it could also be another virus. Either way, it's not promising for your holiday. :(