Should people on a good wage say £40,000 pA give up their social housing home?

[Cheekychops84]

not a personal opinion would just like others views on this matter? Is £40,000 enough to save up to get a mortgage or privately rent if you have 3 children ?

No they shouldn't.
-Because it would remove the incentive to better yourself. You may be better giving up your job or promotion than losing your home!
-Because those people may be in debts or unable to get a mortgage or deposit
-Because why should some people who don't work get a house before someone who does? (I know lots of people can't work through no fault of their own but for the few lazy ones who can-why should they keep a home above a couple who both earn 20,000 or someone who studied to get a better paid job)
-Because a mixed economy of housing is better for estates than becoming large areas of unemployment
-Because if it happens those people would just buy their homes

I agree jelly

But who would voluntarily choose to pay the same rent for a council/housing association place as a private rental. Have you seen most estates?

I am envious of people who can get a council house. It's difficult not to be. We live in a two up two down and we can't get a flat or a bungalow near family. It's hard going living in a house like this with a six foot long quadriplegic. I can't get him through the doors. The stairs are a ladder. He is disqualified from a powerchair because of the house. We probably won't get a bungalow for thirty years because of the age zoning thing. We've been on the housing list for years. We get 200 points for quadriplegia, which is fewer than two children under 10. I can't have children because we're in this house. I work myself to death to try to make enough money to get us out of this house, somehow, though I do think probably if we're still here in five years I will kill myself, as it's clear then we'll never escape in time to really have a life.

It's very difficult to feel generous about it. I do try to remember that people who do get them are worse off than we are and count my blessings. I battle my envy, but it would be a lie to say I don't feel it. I think it's socially corrosive, this housing crisis. It encourages us to pit ourselves against each other, compete with our tragedies and needs. It's not what I want to feel. I don't act on it! But when people say bitter, and envious, I can understand those feelings.

To me, it depends on whether you support the underlying Bevanesque theory of the welfare state in its entirety.

For if you do, then the answer has to be, no they do not give up social housing. But then you have to ask why did social housing not follow the vision of the founders of the welfare state?

Which of course leads to the obvious following questions of why are may other parts of the welfare state not following that vision? Schools departed from it some time ago, housing arguably never reached that point, and the introduction of private providers within NHS in the 00s was probably the tipping point in the final dismantling.

So as the welfare state is no longer what its creators intended, and the dominant view at present is highly utilitarian, then yes, I suppose means-testing housing is the approach that fits the new ideology.

Just remember, it will be means-testing health and school next.

Lisaro - most estates

Took me 6 years of living in he'll to b offered our 2 bedroom home ! My childrens matresses were embedded with mould ! I wouldn't b jelous of someone who had to wait that long plus we had no points to move jus had to b patient ! Mayb ur area works different ? Yes we pay the same as private rented now anyway ?

Not all council housing is on estates, there are some really lovey council properties near me. Many of them are on residential streets where there are lots of privately owned homes.

People who have council housing are lucky to have it IMO. They have a reasonably reliable LL, they have a secure tennancy for as long as they want it, they can do what they want to their property and treat it is their own. They are in a better position than many who have mortgages or rent privately.

That's why they would prefer to live in council housing rather than private.

I have waited longer than six years. The situation with us is that we live in a perfectly good house, it's just no good for us, so we can't claim any sort of mould/damp/hell type situation.

But you are right, I am not jealous of your children's mattresses being mouldy and I am glad you are all more comfortably housed now. I don't want any children to sleep on mouldy mattresses.

You are a better person than me. I can only say again that I don't act on or express those shameful feelings IRL.

I used to think that outraged and was when my friend was given a lovely brand new council property - she was thrilled too. She pays the same as she paid in her private rent and the cul-de-sac that she is living in has been nicknamed beruit :( Its just awful. My friend is lovely and her children are well looked after, they both work really hard, money is still tight - and yes, can close her door and be in her own home, but she can't sit in the garden because of the foul language all around, her neighbours on one side have six boys who raise hell when their mother works nights (teenagers) and the other side have violent arguments til the early hours. My friend looks ill - and has never been so stressed. My was short lived :( Worrying as we are in a very dodgy place with our mortgage

That said, my mother has a lovely council house on a road with private and council housing, huge garden and lovely neighbours.

Just so everyone knows.... social rents are now being made up to 80% of market values, something the coalition introduced.

So they're not that vastly different to the market rates now. Some of my working friends are struggling with huge £250 a month increases in their rents due to this.

The theory is that the housing associations can then make profit (HAs aren't actually supposed to make profit, they weren't set up for that) but the idea is that they then re-invest that in more social housing.

But it does put up the HB bill. I believe private rent should be lower, not social housing rents higher, and that private tenants should be able to obtain greater security of tenure rather than being at risk of eviction after 6 months.

They told me they no longer take mould into consideration hence y we were there so long ! Private landlords do not care !

"But who would voluntarily choose to pay the same rent for a council/housing association place as a private rental. Have you seen most estates?"

yes mine is lovely although most houses are bought now but we are normal people who go to work and everything not all council houses are huge estates these huge estates are usually in big cities,

When me and my husband wanted to move in together out of our parents houses the council told us no because;

1, my husband earned 12k a year
2, his parents owned a 4bedroom house

We private rent we pay a small fortune for this house in a rubbish area, my own parents who live not too far away rent is over £200 cheaper than ours.

I am now glad however that I do not live in council housing and always feel a warm glow when someone goes "oh so your in a council place claiming are you".. and I get to respond with "actually no I am not, I live in a private property and claim no benefits".

Something does need to be done about housing and its going to upset alot of people, we dont as a county have spare cash and council housing appears as a bottomless pit with people playing the system, it has to stop

I am now glad however that I do not live in council housing and always feel a warm glow when someone goes "oh so your in a council place claiming are you".. and I get to respond with "actually no I am not, I live in a private property and claim no benefits"

Can I just point out that just because someone lives in a council house it does not mean they are automatically claiming any benefits - In fact when I first moved into a CH income wasn't even questioned - could have been a higher rate tax payer for all they knew..............

Oh yes I fully know that Fantasticfanjo, its the fact that due to my age people think I live in a council house and claim full benefits and the fact that I do not which gives me the warm glow and the look on their faces just adds to it.

Most new builds these days have to give an allocated (10%) to local housing associations, so there are some nice paces around. I can imagine in big cities this isn't always the case.

I have with my job visited families at home where they've been given a brand new build next to private houses and they are already a mess inside and out. I find that quite sad.

That's y I think ppm who work hard should also have the opportunity to stay in theirs as at least the look after them and y should pol who work b penalised and not have a bit of security ? Theres no way we could get a mortgage ! And to private rent would mean probably having to move every 2-3 years as the landlords decide to sell up or raise the rents even more !

On a salary of 40k you'd take home less than 30k coupled with child care costs of say 10k you'd be hard pressed to save for a deposit of 20- 30 k......

Why do people think that Social housing is subsidised ? The difference between a HA house and a private LL is that HA are not allowed to make a profit - hense lower rents.
I've lived in my house for 25 years and can assure you that had I been paying a mortgage for all those years I'd now be paying a heck of a lot less per month than I do now.......

Totally agree fanjo!

£40k is not enough to pay "market" rent for a family home in central London. BTW I used to work as an estate agent and there are many nasty landlords who rip people off and charge as much as they can. I really think there should be more regulation in the private housing market and rents kept at affordable levels.

A two bed social housing flat will be £500 pcm to rent in my area which sounds cheap for London but is a lot if you are on a low wage but not low enough for benefits.

Many people in London are unable to rent and save for a deposit at the same time. The only people I know who are on an average wage and managed to buy did so years ago or with a hefty sum from their parents. I am also suspcious of "shared ownership" homes. I know a couple of people who are unable to sell their shares, upgrade them or let them out and rent elsewhere and they are effectively trapped.

Genuine question here as I am confused at what defines subsidised housing.

If like most of the estates around my area a house was built in the 1930s it was built and paid for long ago. So if a tenant is paying say around £400 - £600 per month to live there and then maybe say every few years the odd boiler repair or whatever, how is the tax payer subsidising their housing? I honestly don't understand. Surely if people are paying their rents (rather than benefits) this means the council/housing association are making money from them and that can then be spent on say sheltered housing, building new homes etc

Why would the council want to take a house from someone who is paying rent to them to give it to someone who needs to claim rent from them to pay?? It makes no sense to me!

mrsscoob - its One of the most common misconceptions about social housing is that its somehow being subsidized by the "tax Payer" (not that people in SH aren't tax payers).

Social housing isn't subsidised by the tax payer, but it is usually cheaper than market rate. Which means that tennants do not have to worry about supply and demand like the rest of us and they can live in areas that meany people who earn more couldn't dream of living in.

It's not subsidised by way of money, but it is subsidised in another way. Why do some people have the right to not pay market rate while others have no choice? Why do some people get secure lifelong tenancies while others have to face eviction if the LL decides? Why do some people have the right to live in an area that they cannot afford while others are forced to move away? Why is it ok for one family on £40,000 a year to pay rent and go on holiday and drive nice cars and not have to worry about fixing the boiler or replacing their kitchen or roof when it's falling to bits then get free care when they are old, while another family on £40,000 has to go without luxuries like a car or holidays to be able to afford mortgage payments and normal maintenance then be forced to sell their home and pay for their own care when they are old?

These are the things that are unfair about who gets to have social housing, especially when social housing is handed out to people who have simply chosen to have children before they can afford them.

Until there is enough social housing for everyone that wants it, social tennants should have to pay market rate and be subject to the same rules of supply and demand as the rest of us. Then the HAs wouldn't be profiting, they would have money to reinvest to enable everyone the same opportunity.