To feel annoyed/unhappy about this school related

[somedaysareatotalwasteofmakeup]

Ds is due to start school in Sept. He had a half day induction a few weeks ago where the class spent half a day with the teacher (away from parents).

He was really excited and went in happily. When I went to pick him up he was very excited and trying to tell me everything he'd been doing, he was also trying to tell the teacher and other children various things but the teacher was having 30 second chats with the parents as they left. He's a very friendly chatty boy and just seems to love everyone he is a chatterbox at times. Anyway he was kind of badgering the teacher at one point and tapping her, I told him she was talking and to stop trying to interrupt and so did she and that was that. She seemed stressed.

When it was out turn to leave the first things she said with an extremely strained expression was that he'd found it extremely difficult to listen and follow instructions and asked if it was typical of him. I wasn't really expecting this as I normally get nothing but positive comments from everyone about ds but replied that his listening probably could be worked on (as with most 4 year old boys but I didn't say this) but generally I have no problems at all. She then said they'd been doing an activity and he'd pushed in and she said that she was gong to phone his nursery to discuss it. There was no time to say anymore as I was ushered out but I was disappointed to say the least that his first day obviously hadn't gone too well.

The next day I spoke with 3 of ds nursery teachers, his keyworker, the SENCO, and another lady and told them that had been said, told them to expect a call from school and just asked if they had any problems with him and anything we could all work on for Sept. All 3 couldn't believe it and actually said am I sure the teacher hadn't got him mixed up with another child as he's always very good at listening and following instructions, they said he never talks over other children and when I told them about him barging in they actually burst out laughing and said he's always the one at the back waiting around being patient (all of which sounds much more like ds to me). Now 3 weeks on the teacher has not phoned nursery as of yet.

The reasons I am slightly annoyed are I feel it was quite negative feedback and a negative judgement considering she was only with him for half a day, and also not the best time to discuss it when there was no time to elaborate or discuss it further with me, I'm also wondering why she hasn't called nursery whcih makes me think perhaps she was just being snappy because he interrupted her, her tone and body language gave me that impression. I was already worried about him starting school but am now even more worried of what's to be expected of him, do they have much higher expectations than nursery and is he going to be able to cope.

Just to add ds isn't working with the SENCO at nursery but she was saying if there were any problems she'd know about it.

OP - I have deferred my own 4yr old sone for a year, as school does have higher expectations than nursery by a long way, and I know my lad isn't ready for the regime yet.

I think it sounds like the teacher was stressed and your wee son got a bit over excited, that's all.

Well, sounds like he was just really excited, that's all.

She probably hasn't phoned because she's realised she was being daft and she remembered that she's dealing with a 4 year old and they get excited sometimes

If you want to, get the nursery to call her, or phone and say you're following up as she had said that she was going to call the nursery, this is the number and X is the best person to talk to. she'll talk to the nursery and they'll tell her what he's like and point out how excited he was. Or she won't call because, well, see above

But yes, he's going to have to learn new rules. Nursery is probably more relaxed than school will be re chattery children and things.

It'll be fine. Like you say, she doesn't know him. She's going on very limited exposure to him.

Hecate I was considering phoning the school to follow up but people have advised me not to as she might not like it as if I'm checking up on her.

I am actually considering changing the school not solely because of this but there is another school which I think might have a slightly more laid back approach with a more diverse range of children more more of an outdoorsy approach.

That's a possibility.

If you've identified a school you think may suit your son better, then that might be the best thing to do.

I think you sound a bit precious overly concerned. Everything can change in September as I expect teacher knows from experience.
Would you be allowed to change schools at this point? "They" are very strict about transfer windows around here.

Donteat I realise I do sound like that and expected people to say that.

But honestly if his behaviour is bad I really am the first one to try to correct it and I fully accept that his behaviour may not have been good or at least what she expected on the day at school. I'm a bit more bothered that she said she was going to phone his nursery and hasn't, if she was concerned why hasn't she folowed up iyswim?

Honestly I'm wouldn't move him solely based on a negative comment I fully expect there will be more to come over the years I've been unsure all the way through and have found making a decision on a school a very difficult one and had to choose between a school with a better ofsted rating and above average attainment or one that to me came across as a more warm and friendly approach. This has slightly swayed me where I was already very unsure I'd made the right decision. It isn't too late to change so long as another school has a place.

I know it's a long post not gettign many replies.

I won't be offended if everyone says I'm being an ott precious parent!

There is a huge difference between the expectations of nursery and school but I'm surprised that an experienced reception class teacher would be quite so negative about an over-excited little boy being a bit over-enthusiastic.

However, I can see why she'd be a tad stressed if she was trying to speak to other parents while your ds was badgering for attention and the "tapping" must have been very irritating. But there are ways of dealing with this that don't involve phoning the nursery and setting off what sounds like a whole set of unnecessary procedures. Especially since she hasn't now done what she said she would!

If you aren't comfortable with other aspects of the school - personally, I'd go for warm and friendly rather than prioritise the OFSTED rating - then consider changing. But be aware that you won't be able to change school every time your ds has a misunderstanding with a teacher.

He will be a very unusual reception boy if he doesn't have some behaviour issues.

It's interesting you say that he was badgering the teacher to the point of tapping at her, but then seem to dismiss the possibility he was doing that before you were there.

I would expect she wanted to speak to the preschool to see if that was typical behaviour. Having picked up from you that it didn't seem to be typical, she has decided it isn't necessary and will wait to form her own judgement in September.

In my dc's experience though, at preschool they're often happy for a child to "push in" on an activity if they can fit them in. At school it is more often that a teacher needs to do a 1 to 1 with them, and some children find this difficult, as they're used to just joining in.

He will be a very unusual reception boy if he doesn't have some behaviour issues.

Totally agree with that but this is what has been worrying me. Do schools place unrealistic expectations on 4 year old boys? And turn normal behaviour into 'issues'.

Nursery have been wonderful and seem to have a brilliant understand of each childs personality and individual needs to bring out the best in them. They have also encouraged his confidence and outspokenness and I'm so worried that a strict school will crush this and damage his confidence.

Unfortunately, the sheer numbers in the average primary school class (as opposed to pre-school) mean that while you would expect a teacher to understand the personality of individual children, they can't entirely focus their attention on one particular child.

In my experience, a confident child won't be crushed by the realistic expectations of school. However, "outspokenness" can be a very mixed blessing. As I recall throughout some of ds2's school years!!

dewe I'm not dismissing anything he was doing before I was there I said I fully accept that his behavour obviously wasn't what she expected and he will have to learn not to interrupt and to wait his turn.

What bothered me is that at the time that she mentioned he's found listening and following instructions difficult, there was no time to dicuss anything further she sort of told me her observations and ushered me out. She said she would ring the nursery after I said I'd had no problems. It was the final thing that she said before saying goodbye.

When I left him he was sat quietly at a desk drawing and knowing ds and knowing his behaviour at nursery I do find it difficult to believe that he was that disruptive to the point that she felt the need to note it. He is a very laid back and tolerant child and it would have been completely out of character for him to push in. I've witnessed other children pushing in snatching things from him at nursery and swimming lessons, when playing around other kids and he just tolerates it.

I'm wondering what the purpose of this induction day was. At my DC school they're a chance for the children to visit the school, meet the teachers, find out whats in the classroom etc. It should be a positive experience for children and their parents, who may well also be feeling a bit daunted at their baby suddenly being old enough to go to school! So I find it very strange that you've been left feeling negative and that the teacher has used this day to start judging the children.
I'm wondering if this teacher is an experienced Reception teacher. Could she have moved from further up the school? Yes there are different expectations placed on children at school, but Reception teachers should be aware of this and be prepared to spend the first half term (at least!) working on establishing the new rules and routines and generally just settling in the children. The examples of behaviour you mentioned are very mild and don't seem worth mentioning unless they persist well into next term. Especially not on a day which should have left you feeling positive and excited about starting 'big' school. Yanbu to feel a bit disappointed about how this day went. Hope things improve if you decide to stay at that school!

"I would expect she wanted to speak to the preschool to see if that was typical behaviour. Having picked up from you that it didn't seem to be typical, she has decided it isn't necessary and will wait to form her own judgement in September."

I agree the above is the most likely. I don't think the teacher is making an issue of what happened, she gave you honest feedback. I realise it wasn't what you wanted to hear but neither you nor the nursery staff were there so you need to accept her account of what happened.

As your child moves through school there will be lots of incidences where you are not clear about what has happened in class. Sometimes your child will tell you, sometimes other parents, and it's all open to interpretation. If you want clarification I would phone the school and ask if you can come in and have a quick word with the teacher. Just say you would like some detailed feedback on how his visit went. I can't imagine any school not accommodating you, you're a prospective parent. You could also use the visit to get a better feel for the school.

I would be worried about this teacher

she couldnt make that kind of assessment based on 1 afternoon, with a whole class of new reception aged kids-all of them. together for the first time. new to school!

and yes, very unprofessional to have a half-arsed conversation with you about it on pick up

And not to follow up, as she advised you she would

As a teacher she should also be aware of the emotional 'stress' you would have over a comment like this...it shouldnt be a throw away comment

i would speak to the head teacher about the experience/competence of this teacher...and to find out why she made this comment in such a flippant way. And didnt follow through

I would post this thread on the SN board

If I can be completely honest, OP, it sounds like she was more irritated by you than him.

Anyway he was kind of badgering the teacher at one point and tapping her, I told him she was talking and to stop trying to interrupt and so did she and that was that.

As a teacher, I would have expected you to remove him and explain to him what was happening and that it would be our turn next, or whatever. I obviously wouldn't be able to 'tell you off' in the same way I would do a child, so I might address it by drawing your attention to the inappropriateness of the behaviour you were allowing. If that makes sense.

It's difficult getting to know the parents of the new intake. Each parent wants to know that their child will be important, etc and you can achieve that by talking to them before they leave. However, in this other family's case, the teacher found it difficult to do that because you were allowing your child to distract her.

The teacher will have been trying to take in what the parents were saying, respond appropriately, mentally record important info etc. and being 'badgered' makes this very difficult.

It's one thing having an over-excited child in your class and during activities at an induction day when you expect it. It's a bit deflating when you see the same child being allowed to do it by the parent because it does sort of suggest that it might become an issue throughout the year and that the parent might not recognise why it is an issue.

I don't think parents always realise just how distracting it is for the teacher and the other children to have a child who interrupts and isn't able to follow instructions in the class. Of course, small children won't always follow the instructions, take turns, do the right thing, but they need to know that they are expected to.

folkgirl well that would be really shit; if the teacher was projecting her annoyance with OP onto the dc!

it is really distracting to have a child in the class who interrupts/cant concentrate etc...so what? teacher cant make that assessment after this one session. And shouldnt bring it up in the way she did. And should employ strategies in the classroom to address it...

I wasn't suggesting she was projecting it onto the child.

Maybe just drawing the OP's attention to the behaviour when she saw the behaviour happen in front of the parent and the parent was ineffective in addressing it.

In terms of employing strategies in the classroom, yes, from September she can do, but think how much easier it is when children's parents have higher expectations of behaviour too. A simple "DS, Mrs X is talking to somebody else. We need to wait patiently, it will be our turn soon." Would have made such a difference. And even if it made no difference day to day, at least all the adults would be on the same page.

And yes, I know that it isn't always down to parental expectations. But sometimes it is. I just think that the teacher's harsh sounding response might have had more to do with the OP's handling of the situation than the fact he'd been behaving like an excited 4 year old all afternoon!

I'm not saying she was right! Just explaining why she might have reacted in the way the OP describes. I think the phoning nursery comment was unnecessary and inappropriate.

But none of us were there, and none of us know exactly what happened when the OP was there or what was said, and not even the OP knows exactly what happened when she wasn't there.

The OP may not have been able to remove her DS. It sounds like they were on their way out and there was no doubt a bit of a queue if the teacher was trying to have a word with each parent. What I would expect the teacher to say is something like "It's been lovely meeting you. Really looking forward to seeing you in September" A similar comment to the parent, perhaps with something along the lines of "It's lovely he's so enthusiastic about joining in everything" There's time in September to sort out problems like shouting out or not waiting for turns. I don't think an induction day was the right time, especially with no time to discuss strategies etc.

I completely agree that the teacher chose the wrong time and place to 'address' something she felt was a real concern. I was just trying to understand why she might have done it. Inexperience aside.

And she might well have said and done all the 'right' things, had the OP not let her child 'badger' (to use the OP's words) the teacher whilst she was speaking to someone else. That was rude on the OP's part. And the teacher is only human.

folkgirl I thought I made it clear in my op that I did stop ds from badgering. I gave it a few second first for her to deal with it as we were in her classroom and then I told ds that she was speaking at which point he went onto the next thing which I think was showing me where his coat was.

If she was annoyed that I didn't deal with it quickly enough then that's air enough but I'd have preferred her to speak up and ask me to deal with ds as what you've just described is very passive aggressive and unprofessional. Which is exactly what I'm concerned about. You don't threaten to ring a nursery to discuss a childs behaviour which to me would suggest there is quite a big concern purely because you're annoyed with a parent.

I think the teacher has handled the situation really badly and it has resulted in you feeling apprehensive about your son starting school rather than excited for him. These induction things should not be used in the context of judging your child but should be to make the child comfortable.

Any teacher who knows young children should know that the situation is one in which children are often likely to be uncharacteristically over-excited or shy or socially uncomfortable etc.. and it's really very unprofessional of the teacher to start discussing behaviour based on half a day and giving you 30 seconds attention. Very, very poor indeed in my opinion.

I'm not surprised you are feeling worried, this sort of thing would really upset and worry me too. NOT because I think your child's behaviour is unusual in the context or should be something to worry you in future but because the teacher seems so judgemental so early on and is already talking about contacting nursery in what seems from your post to be an almost threatening way. And I'm not a pfb mum but a mother of 3 and a primary school teacher.

I'd call her bluff and get nursery to contact the head of early years at the school direct if you have a good relationship with the nursery and explain how worried the induction has made you (mum) and giving an honest report on your son.

My son's nursery final report is in the form of an 'All about me' book with report in all areas, photos and general teacher comments and we give a copy to class teacher at school induction (which is 1 hour with parents present).

It sounds like the teacher is inexperienced and even that she may have muddled your child up with another child from what you have said about how your DS usually behaves. Inexperience is no excuse for making you feel bad though. My eldest is a real teacher-badgerer and teachers have always handled it well, they should be used to it.

Speaking as a former reception teacher and current pre school teacher, it sounds like she was stressed and that things got off to a bad start with your DS. Those new starter sessions are tough for teachers trying to work out all of those personalities. Perhaps she just made a snap judgement and then didn't handle it well when she spoke to you. I can't imagine I would ever have considered contacting a child's nursery based on a half day of knowing them. That is weird.