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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think England isn't such a great place to live

389 replies

Cloudminnow · 15/07/2012 18:52

Not just the weather, but so much more ...

parking fees everywhere and having to have change at hand (or very expensive pay as you leave - £8.80 to park for an afternoon shopping today!!)

hopeless and expensive public transport system

traffic jams all over the place

terrible customer service

obsession with celebrity culture and all it stands for

union flag and all it stands for

embarrassing monarchy (even having to have one at all)

desperate government

Olympics sponsored by Coke

Education system overly concerned with literacy, numeracy and data at the expense of a love of learning and creativity...

Can anyone sell England to me?!

OP posts:
FreudianSlipper · 16/07/2012 13:31

not a clue about what

living in city slums, gang culture, poverty, treatment of women and children, crime what is it so many do not have a clue about

explotation of people is a crime and we have laws to protect people against it and they are used though not always enoung. of course it still happens humans are cruel at times no matter how many laws you have in place

Nancy66 · 16/07/2012 13:31

Susanne - why can't you use the subway after 7pm?
I go to NY all the time and use the subway (often alone) at night.

ivykaty44 · 16/07/2012 13:39

FreudianSlipper - I didn't include Saudi as a better place for health care

ThePigOnTheWall - I did post I enjoy radio 4 and then you list all the programs I listen to, so sorry if you think I am snippy, but what was the point in that? Seems bizare

FreudianSlipper · 16/07/2012 13:45

i know i added saudi as i was making a point, better healthcare terrible place to live, oman may be a better place to live but not that much better. my post listed everything that was good about living here having freedom as a woman is as high up on my list as the nhs

ivykaty44 · 16/07/2012 13:49

They are two different countries and it makes it look like you either think they are the same country or you didn't read my post.

AltruisticEnigma · 16/07/2012 14:02

I think you're just complaining for the sake of complaining to be honest, OP. You can go to a lot of countries that are in a lot worse state than we are. A lot of the things you've mentioned such as the government is a lot better than other countries across the world. You don't see David Cameron calling for the armed forces to start attacking civilians, do you? As far as transport and culture, that's the same in most parts of Europe - not just in the UK.

The grass is always greener on the other side. At least you don't have to pay to go and get a general checkup at the doctors.

FreudianSlipper · 16/07/2012 14:03

i know they are two different countries, they both have very good healthcare they both have poor record of human rights (more so saudi)

i posted you can add saudi to the list of better healthcare but when you weigh it all up does it really have a better healthcare system than us when a woman has no or very few rights over her own body, she can not herself choose to use contraception or have a termination

you can not really compare healthcare systems when woman are not allowed to make decisions for themselves

yellowraincoat · 16/07/2012 14:06

And with Saudi, yes, sure, if you have a well-paid job, good insurance etc, you might get good healthcare. But for a huge percentage of people in that country, there is basically no healthcare.

Besides that, when I worked there, I had insurance and it was such a massive palaver trying to find somewhere to get an appointment, find out how much I had to pay, find out where to go in the hospital etc that in the end I gave up.

ThePigOnTheWall · 16/07/2012 14:08

Ivy Last time I looked about half of the programmes I Iisted weren't on radio 4 but you seem determined to be beleaguered so I'll leave you to it.

cumbria81 · 16/07/2012 14:09

In my experience, the people that complain the most about the UK are those that have never lived abroad, and thus have this grass is greener view of it.

Yes, it might be warmer in other countries, there might be more trees etc, but every single place has social/economic/cultural problems of some kind.

ladychops · 16/07/2012 14:10

Grass always seems greener

theodorakis · 16/07/2012 14:13

If I still lived in Bangladesh or Africa nobody would bang on about human rights. The Middle east is an easy target because they are rich. Africa was bloody scary and nobody was safe and bangladesh is left to get on with the way they treat women. Qatar is by far the most civilised place I have lived, no attacks, no car being trashed for a laugh, no Jeremy kyle chavs (apart from the Brits on stopover) and positive discrimination for women in the workplace.

yellowraincoat · 16/07/2012 14:18

theodorakis, people talk about human rights in Africa all the time.

Maybe they talk about it MORE in the middle east because expats go there and essentially exploit the fact that they have a crap human rights record. Why do you think you get paid so much to work there? Part of it is because many people wouldn't want to put up with the crap you have to deal with there. Part of of it is also because services like cleaning and driving and whatever cost companies nothing because it's essentially slave labour.

Just because other countries have shit human rights records doesn't make Qatar's ok.

Francagoestohollywood · 16/07/2012 14:18

YABU.
I lived in the UK for 8 yrs and I think it is a good place to live. Not the "best", but I honestly couldn't point to "the best" place to live, could anyone?

The UK is a fairly safe country, with good institutions, good universities, a lively public debate, decent transports (though there are better ones in some European countries), the NHS (though highly underfunded), a decent state school system. Good TV. Great interior design magazines and Topshop. That is quite something.

theodorakis · 16/07/2012 14:23

I am not ashamed of earning a lot of money, I actually earned far more working for other oil and gas companies doing the same job but I would never set foot in Africa again and would rather work in a place I like. That's it, I don't really care about the human rights stuff, I have seen much much worse and I also read people on MN who don't have £2 to last them the week. I think that is a failure of a so called civilised country and I also like being rich. End of story. Just because you hate something doesn't mean others can't like it. I probably wouldn't want to live where you do.

yellowraincoat · 16/07/2012 14:28

"I don't care about human rights".

That has to be one of the saddest things I've ever read.

Believe me, I fucking loved having money when I lived in Saudi. But I look back and cringe to be honest.

The UK has a hell of a lot wrong with it, I'm not blind to that. But the middle East is a whole other thing.

FreudianSlipper · 16/07/2012 14:35

well all you care about is making money

i care that being a woman i have laws on my side to protect me and i am able to make decisions for myself and if i were to have a daughter she would be able to do the same

to me that is far more important than having a big bank balance

PingPongPom · 16/07/2012 14:35

kim147 you must live very near me. I spent nearly 5 years in Australia and I LOVE Yorkshire, Brimham Rocks is awesome. Yes of course there are faults and always room for improvement but you won't hear me complain about the NHS and school system for a start!

Yorkshire is truly beautiful and I feel so lucky to be able to live here :). I love the landscape, the people are warm and friendly and have an excellent sense of humour, the history, the temperate climate, yes could do with less rain but this year has been very unusual climate wise.

I also love London (lived there for a few years too). A vibrant, buzzing city. UK is fab.

Laquitar · 16/07/2012 15:07

'Great interior design magazines'.

Franca, i like your criteria for a good country, you are truly Italian Grin
(i am joking and i always enjoy reading your posts)

Theodorakis, glad you like it there, stay in your paradise Hmm

RevoltingPeasant · 16/07/2012 15:18

At least you don't have to pay to go and get a general checkup at the doctors.

But Enigma you don't get check-ups on the NHS, do you??? At least not at any GP's I've ever been to. You only go if you actively think something is wrong.

I have spent time in the US, France, Switzerland, and a little in Canada. There are good and bad sides. American public transport is by and large pants and seen as just for poor people. Healthcare was amazing - but then - we could afford it, and lots couldn't. So not great.

French and Swiss healthcare amazing too, 'free' (well not, of course...) and much more pro-active than the NHS. I felt much safer there and do worry a bit about the lack of preventative healthcare here, and how long operations take to come around. Also both countries much cleaner in the cities: in Geneva you'd regularly see council workers sluicing down streets and bus stops every morning.

That said, I think the UK is home for me. In so far as anywhere is.

Francagoestohollywood · 16/07/2012 15:50

I truly am, Laquitar Grin, don't underestimate the pleasure offered by good magazines!

RevoltingPeasant, I hear you re the NHS, I think it is great and largely work well, but not enough funded to cover prevention, which nowadays is a very important aspect of medicine.

I will stop now, as I do miss the UK.

ivykaty44 · 16/07/2012 18:30

ThePigOnTheWall - I didn't say all the programs you listed were on radio 4.

worldcitizen · 16/07/2012 20:27

The NHS is not he best health care system...it is good, very good compared to many other countries, but not necessarily so good compared with the countries playing in the same league as the UK.

Anyway, what is about the...if you don't like it here....then go to ????

It is okay to voice one's view, or not? How else would you better something, if not happy about it. well, if you are happy with the standard then good for you, but if others would like to improve, and doing that by looking left and right, and pointing out some uncomfortable things, why not, no harm done?!

ElaineBenes · 17/07/2012 00:25

Susanne - were you in NYC in the 80s? You can certainly safely ride the subway after 7pm and much much later nowadays other than really dodgy areas like the south Bronx. In fact I feel safer than in London because less public drunkenness and heavier police presence.

And in my part of NYC, kids can play outside, no problem. No worse than London.

Still prefer London though!

pinkredandpurple · 17/07/2012 00:39

I think it's only worth comparing to the countries in the same league (i.e. democracies) - after that you just either love the place or you don't. Faults in all other democratic/civilised countries, of different types. My friend says she'd never live outside the US as the living standard is much better value and it really is democratic (no class system really). But I would't live there, I love England. Though there are lots of faults - poor health care (compared to Scandi countries, Germany and Switzerland) - many gp's are USELESS and fob you off with antibiotics, and if you need a specialst doctor/operation then wait for months!? hospitals are not very modern and clean where in-patients stay, even famous ones in C.London. Lots of unemployment in the North. Ugly modern buildings (esp residential). But to me it's home as I love it (not born here) for the beauty and the historic character, green spaces, the countryside, language, best television, creativity, people can be great etc.